[Town victory] Vanilla Mafia!

[Sinderella]

[[Hecc this was my bad, Espy is also lumped in with Astrid in that we don’t know their alignment. BUT I’m with Chibi on everything they said and I just can’t convince myself fully that Espy is scum.]]

[[OH okay, gracias for clarification.]]

 

[HelloYellow17]

[[guys I’m pretty sure I know why Sind says she knows who the lovers are and why she didn’t claim so earlier annnnd I’m going to say we don’t want to lynch her]]

Tentatively voting AbraPunk.

[[Just gonna pull up a few quotes for everybody to consider! Dragonfree was the first to directly hint at Clovis’ lover role. Clovis originally only stated that he knew who the lovers were, not that he was one.

[[What Homestar's suspicion of Shiny Phantump is getting at is not that she edited something, but that in summarizing the roles she failed to mention something relevant (rolecop getting a vanilla result for serial killer) and added in information that wasn't known upfront (all the vanillas getting hints). However, she wasn't summarizing the entire wiki pages for the roles anyway and I doubt she went out of her way to read all of them (I sure haven't read every wiki page for every standard role), and we've already established the vanilla information being a thing that all the vanilla players were told, so I don't think either of those things mean anything.]]

Also pulling this up, in which Dragonfree defends Phan.

I understand that it might be a stretch to say Phan and Free deliberately started and then abandoned a vote train on Pixie. BUT I think we can all say that Free was ridiculously brilliant in her town play, and if it weren’t for Chibi, we might have never figured out she was scum. She also literally pretended to have forgotten Juggernaut was in the game just the day before, lol. Like, it almost makes me mad how good she was, it’s so unfair. 🤣

Anyways, Free and Phan also established trust very quickly among town on D1, so maybe they had confidence in their ability to vote Pixie, jump ship, then convince everyone else to do so as well. This would make them look very convincingly town if Clovis and Pixie died to the SK and flipped mafia.

Or maybe Phan started it, not realizing or believing it would take off like it did, and Free jumped aboard just to avoid suspicion, convinced that that would be the end vote, and then Phan unvoted in a desperate attempt to take heat off of Pixie.]]

 

[Shiny Phantump]

I also very adamantly told everyone not to vote for either lover pair

[[Funny! That's not how I remember it going at all! See these posts trying to throw suspicion at BOTH lover pairs, both taking place after their claims:

I was planning to interrogate Sind the next day but with this claim she is definitely the most sus to me and has been inconsistent in a lot of ways today.

Hard Scum/SK:
Kent

In fact, tunneling on Lovers was one of the first reasons I was a little leery of you, which is why I remembered this well enough to bother digging it up.]]

 

[HelloYellow17]

[[Funny! That's not how I remember it going at all! See these posts trying to throw suspicion at BOTH lover pairs, both taking place after their claims:


In fact, tunneling on Lovers was one of the first reasons I was a little leery of you, which is why I remembered this well enough to bother digging it up.]]

The last two quotes were before the lover claims. The last one in particular, of my reads, was being typed up WHILE Tetra posted her lovers claim, so I didn’t see it until after I posted and I feel like I made that pretty clear. I changed my reads list after that.

Nice try with pulling my words out of context, though 😉

And yes, I went back to find the posts I made AFTER the lovers claims just to prove I really did say these things at the end of D1:

[[Everybody change your votes ASAP PLEASE]]

It is not worth voting on ANY of the lovers rn.]]

Remember that if the lover pairs don’t die in the night, it could be mafia trying to get us suspicious of each other and still trying to get a mislynch pair. If this happens, don’t jump to conclusions too quickly.]]

 

[HelloYellow17]

In fact, tunneling on Lovers was one of the first reasons I was a little leery of you, which is why I remembered this well enough to bother digging it up.]]

[[Now this is amusing! Because I only tunneled on the lovers before they made their claims. Kent made an early soft claim, but nobody believed him and was prepared to lynch him anyway because of the suspicious play style. I tunneled on Clovis after Hana’s claim because I was SURE that, at the time, there wouldn’t be two pairs of lovers. The fact that there were two pairs was a surprise to pretty much everyone.

tldr: you couldn’t have become sus of me for tunneling on the lovers because nobody knew they were lovers until after I’d stopped tunneling them.]]

 

[Sinderella]

Just gonna pull up a few quotes for everybody to consider! Dragonfree was the first to directly hint at Clovis’ lover role. Clovis originally only stated that he knew who the lovers were, not that he was one.

[[To be fair a lot of people started reading between the lines too.

Nonetheless, yeah I still cannot explain why Jean defended me; this is what made me wary to vote them off; I was SO CONVINCED they were town because of how hard they defended me, it didn’t make any sense to me, and it still doesn’t.

Really, I’m stuck on my hypothesis that mafia is set on making my lover pair look sus, not that I really have much of a leg to stand on. It makes somewhat sense in my head though. ]]

 

[Fusion]

[[And here we see Phan v. Yellow 2021, with guest star Sinderella. Be sure to tune in with out Pay Per View system at 123 My Wallet]]

 

[Shiny Phantump]

Anyways, Free and Phan also established trust very quickly among town on D1

[[Because I was tired of people tunnelling lovers, which she didn't do. This was, for the record, a good idea and you should probably also have done that as well instead of going after both pairs lovers. Jackie and Chibi also felt the same way.

I understand that it might be a stretch to say Phan and Free deliberately started and then abandoned a vote train on Pixie.

You are conveniently misremebering the order this happened:

But I don't think they're quite as suspicious or unhelpful as Pixie!

[[I am leaning towards Pixie as well maaybe]]

Also down for Pixie ig?

(I'm pretty sure Homestar also helped start it before me but I can't find that.)

The last two quotes were before the lover claims. The last one in particular, of my reads, was being typed up WHILE Tetra posted her lovers claim, so I didn’t see it until after I posted and I feel like I made that pretty clear. I changed my reads list after that.

Tetra was the third one to clam Lovers, after the two you were tunnelling on. Abra claimed Lovers a long time ago and Sind had already countered it.]]

 

[Sinderella]

[[I’m trying so damn hard to tell y’all that I’m not scum for the love on god 😂😂]]

[[And here we see Phan v. Yellow 2021, with guest star Sinderella. Be sure to tune in with out Pay Per View system at 123 My Wallet]]

 

[Homestar!]

Mike pushed himself back into a regular position for a moment, and gently cleared his throat.

"If I may," he spoke with a little grin, "I'd like to point out an interesting little pattern.

"When I at first rounded on Anti, he was very quick to be as helpful as possible in the case of his inevitable demise." Mike made a quick little religious motion, evoking the spokes of Arceus. "Notably, Bart did the same when he came under duress.

"But Jean immediately began to blow smoke in all directions," Mike smiled at Hazel, "and, my friend, you were incredibly quick on the draw to do the exact same.

"I have my immense suspicions of Sparkleglimmer, of course. But I can't deny a very strong sense of deja vu. It's almost like we're doing this whole thing over again," Mike grinned, "like deja vu."

 

[Shiny Phantump]

[[Now, may I reiterate, I have still not gotten an answer as to why Wes is so high in people's reads? Like, if there is a reason I can shut up, but nobody seems to have one! Even Hello's own explanation wilfully misremembers things.

Mike smiled at Hazel, "and, my friend, you were incredibly quick on the draw to do the exact same.

I am not blowing smoke, I am considering one possibility that seems quite possible to me, blowing smoke is trying to obfuscate things by throwing ideas in all directions. Being suspicious of one person is not smoking things.]]

 

[Fusion]

"You sound very proud of yourself," Reme said, smiling at Mike coming back to life for a moment. "Never change, Mike."

The Gardevoir then turned to the helmeted Chimera. "I... will not pretend like I have a solid judgement on anyone here, but I can't help but feel like you're grasping at straws, even with the evidence you're putting forth, and not in a Town sort of way. If you turn out to be innocent... I am sorry."

 

[Shiny Phantump]

[[All I want is to know why Wes is being red highly for what appears to be no reason. Once Wes jumped in with false statements, I didn't just let them stand but I expected someone to, you know, tell me the actual reason.]]

 

[Fusion]

"I know I just said I doubt Hazel's innocence, but I too would like to hear when or why everyone was convinced of Wes' innocence," Reme asked. "Not to sound like there's bad blood between us, but I don't think there was even much discussion after I was proved innocent after his... attacking of me."

"Of which, I know he has apologized for, but... and it may possibly be Hazel's influence, but it feels like that was swept under the rug. Most likely for other, more damning matters."

 

[HelloYellow17]

[[I thiiiiink my best guess at this point is that there are just two sets of town lovers? I refuse to believe in a world where mafia Sinderella would have somehow galaxy brained up a whole act about claiming to be vanilla with no info, but I also have reeeal difficulty seeing Flyg0n doing all this as mafia? The immediate pushback on Homestar was nuts without the assumption she knew the claim was fake, and it'd also be some serious galaxy braining for a mafia member to go for that? aaagh

Unvote Kent]]

[[Just pulling this up as well; Tetra brought up two sets of lovers briefly iirc, but other than Tetra, Free was one of the first to bring up the possibility of two lovers. Which is an interesting assumption to make in a vanilla game!

This was, for the record, a good idea and you should probably also have done that as well instead of going after both pairs lovers.

You just ignored the fact that I said I didn’t know who the lovers were when I was suspicious of Kent. I was also not the only one who continued to be suspicious of Kent after his soft claim.

(I'm pretty sure Homestar also helped start it before me but I can't find that.)

So you’re saying you didn’t start the vote train. This actually helps my mafia lovers theory then. You didn’t start the vote train but joined it after it started gaining some traction.

Tetra was the third one to clam Lovers, after the two you were tunnelling on. Abra claimed Lovers a long time ago and Sind had already countered it.]]

Clovis did not claim lovers at that point. He only said he knew who the lovers were, so at that point he could have been, idk, a rolecop or something. He looked incredibly suspicious after Hana’s claim because, again, I wasn’t really considering the possibility of two lover sets at this point on the grounds that this was supposed to be a “vanilla” game. (Lol.)]]

 

[Homestar!]

I am not blowing smoke, I am considering one possibility that seems quite possible to me, blowing smoke is trying to obfuscate things by throwing ideas in all directions. Being suspicious of one person is not smoking things.]]

"Now, I know a handful of party tricks," Mike spoke...

[[I find Chibi thinking Espy is innocent interesting. Not sold, but I am intrigued because for that to be true, there would be some interesting logical consequences.

[[Espy]]

we should start scanning for fake claims.

[[General smoke/confusion]]

In the meantime, I am also once again wondering why we seem to know Wes is town,

[[Wes]]

So, this theory is that me changing my mind settling on not wanting to kill at random in the dentist waiting room is evidence in favour of me having started a train against my own scum teammate, who I knew to be a lover, and that Dragonfree played along with it also knowing they were scum lovers and thus tied the four of us together, because y'know how experienced scum loves tying themselves together.

[[Whatever the hell this was (which is a ridiculous snap-back at me, I guess?)]]

[[Funny! That's not how I remember it going at all!

[[Misinformation]]

(I'm pretty sure Homestar also helped start it before me but I can't find that.)

[[Me, solidly]]

"... But talking out of my ass isn't one of them." Mike entertained the idea, shrugged, and added, "well, yet."

 

[HelloYellow17]

"I know I just said I doubt Hazel's innocence, but I too would like to hear when or why everyone was convinced of Wes' innocence," Reme asked. "Not to sound like there's bad blood between us, but I don't think there was even much discussion after I was proved innocent after his... attacking of me."

"Of which, I know he has apologized for, but... and it may possibly be Hazel's influence, but it feels like that was swept under the rug. Most likely for other, more damning matters."

“That’s…totally fair, to be honest,” Wes said, a little sheepishly. “I outlined my suspicions of you many times, and I really, truly did think I was on to something. When Anti flipped innocent, I realized I’d wasted so much of my time and everyone else’s time. I don’t have anything better to add, except that I made a mistake and I’m still kicking myself over it.

“As for defense…well, I know several people, including Ebony—” he shot a grateful look to the Houndoom— “have said they trust me, even after those mistakes. I know Hana said she trusted me after I asked the real cop to stay silent on the first day. Salem mentioned trusting me as well. I don’t remember them saying anything specific, just that I’ve conducted myself as a town member with honest intentions.”

 

[Shiny Phantump]

[[Espy]]

[[Yeah, I've been there since yesterday.

[[General smoke/confusion]]

No, me thinking there will be fakeclaims if Espy is innocent makes thing easier to figure out by eliminating possibilities.

[[Wes]]

I still just want to know where these mystery reads are coming from.

[[Whatever the hell this was (which is a ridiculous snap-back at me, I guess?)]]

No, that... had nothing to do with you? I said Free/Phan/Sind/Pers Mafia was not a real possibility, which I stand behind.

[[Misinformation]]

No, that is true, Hello did tunnel on both Lovers

[[Me, solidly]]

This is not me saying you're suspicious at all, it's alongside to flipped innocents doing the same and I already have said I have a strong feeling that you are innocent...

Which, given the probability of my death, I can't withhold anymore since the secrets of the dead aren't threatening anymore anyways: My hint was that there's two OSBP players, and since you and Inke were never too heavily questioned on that, there was no reason to reveal it.]]

 

[Homestar!]

“That’s…totally fair, to be honest,” Wes said, a little sheepishly. “I outlined my suspicions of you many times, and I really, truly did think I was on to something. When Anti flipped innocent, I realized I’d wasted so much of my time and everyone else’s time. I don’t have anything better to add, except that I made a mistake and I’m still kicking myself over it.

“As for defense…well, I know several people, including Ebony—” he shot a grateful look to the Houndoom— “have said they trust me, even after those mistakes. I know Hana said she trusted me after I asked the real cop to stay silent on the first day. Salem mentioned trusting me as well. I don’t remember them saying anything specific, just that I’ve conducted myself as a town member with honest intentions.”

"You trusted the serial killer, and entertained their offer," Mike added. "That is the number one reason I trust you. That is a ballsy fucking play for the Mafia to make, considering the serial killer wants the mafia dead just as much as anyone else."

 

[Shiny Phantump]

You trusted the serial killer, and entertained their offer," Mike added. "That is the number one reason I trust you. That is a ballsy fucking play for the Mafia to make, considering the serial killer wants the mafia dead just as much as anyone else.

[[Going after a claimed cop over a claimed SK is even weirder for town. Mafia at least also wants the cop dead. Town has no reason to go after their own claimed cop (and said cop''s townread.)]]