[Town victory] Vanilla Mafia!

[HelloYellow17]

My hint was that there's two OSBP players, and since you and Inke were never too heavily questioned on that, there was no reason to reveal it.]]

[[….then why, on multiple occasions, did you refuse to reveal it? Were you hoping to fool the mafia somehow into thinking there were more OSBP players? Because I don’t think anyone was actually considering that possibility anyway.]]

"You trusted the serial killer, and entertained their offer," Mike added. "That is the number one reason I trust you. That is a ballsy fucking play for the Mafia to make, considering the serial killer wants the mafia dead just as much as anyone else."

Wes let out a weak laugh and ruffled a hand through his hair. “Yeah, I did do that, though I’m not sure that was bold or just plain stupid. In hindsight, I’m glad we didn’t go along with their plan for lots of reasons.”

 

[HelloYellow17]

[[Going after a claimed cop over a claimed SK is even weirder for town. Mafia at least also wants the cop dead. Town has no reason to go after their own claimed cop (and said cop''s townread.)]]

“I’ve said it a thousand damn times, but I’ll say it again, nearly all of my suspicion of Anti was from Bart defending him out of nowhere while acting suspicious as hell. Looking back, I realize it was a flimsy argument. But that’s where my suspicions came from.”

 

[Shiny Phantump]

….then why, on multiple occasions, did you refuse to reveal it? Were you hoping to fool the mafia somehow into thinking there were more OSBP players? Because I don’t think anyone was actually considering that possibility anyway.

[[Because an unclaimed hint could be anything, not just about OSBP players. it makes any lie harder because there's a chance it could be about whatever you want to lie about, not just OSBP. It only becomes exclusively about OSBP once claimed, and only at that point does it no longer do anything of value.]]

 

[HelloYellow17]

[[Because an unclaimed hint could be anything, not just about OSBP players. it makes any lie harder because there's a chance it could be about whatever you want to lie about, not just OSBP. It only becomes exclusively about OSBP once claimed, and only at that point does it no longer do anything of value.]]

[[Fair, I can see why withholding this information would be beneficial to town and unhelpful for mafia.]]

 

[Fusion]

“That’s…totally fair, to be honest,” Wes said, a little sheepishly. “I outlined my suspicions of you many times, and I really, truly did think I was on to something. When Anti flipped innocent, I realized I’d wasted so much of my time and everyone else’s time. I don’t have anything better to add, except that I made a mistake and I’m still kicking myself over it.

Reme nodded. "And for whatever it is worth, I myself have forgiven you. I am well aware of my Voice's reputation, and how at the time, Town was desperate for information. It would be petty of me to hold a grudge for so long."

[[Because an unclaimed hint could be anything, not just about OSBP players. it makes any lie harder because there's a chance it could be about whatever you want to lie about, not just OSBP. It only becomes exclusively about OSBP once claimed, and only at that point does it no longer do anything of value.]]

"While, yes, that is a fair point, did you ever allude to the fact that you had information? A bait to press the Mafia to be more careful of their lies is useless if... that bait isn't cast. In fact, you could have spoken up about your information sooner, since there wasn't much reason to hold onto it once it was clear no one else really cared about that bulletproof... thing."

 

[Homestar!]

[[oskxmaoxhs ocj okay. OKAY.

I have to go to bed and I have a very busy day tomorrow so I might not be able to post much, so I’m gonna throw my thoughts here.

I trust Altair.

He was the first to put pressure on Pory and Bart. We know Pory was mafia, and Bart almost CERTAINLY is.

Ive been highly sus of Reme AND Anti for reasons stated earlier. Most of my sus of Anti was due to the low-key play style, the not voting for Pory, and the fact that Bart went out of their way to put Anti as a townread despite almost no evidence indicating so. My reasons against Reme have already been said.

It’s terribly ironic that, as we all start to focus on Bart, Anti comes out of the woodwork to not only direct our attention away from them, but to point all fingers at Altair and clear Reme’s name at the same time. It’s way too convenient.

Altair’s BP claim really confused me, but now that they’ve claimed SK it all makes sense and it aligns with my reads.

Reme, Bart and Anti are all mafia.

TRUST ALTAIR, YOU GUYS.]]

 

[Homestar!]

[[Didn't mean to submit lmao one sec]]

 

[Homestar!]

"Wes," Mike spoke, coming back from the strange world-between-worlds he had been skimming, "I gotta admit that that's... That's not a good look.

"It doesn't change my vote," Mike conceded, "but damn if that doesn't look bad in retrospect."

 

[Shiny Phantump]

[[Augh, this was not supposed to tangent this far and I got more annoyed and snippy than I should have, I just figured someone would point me to some post or info or whatnot I missed that explained the read... I was not planning to start getting at the idea that Wes must be scum, although I can see I have started conveying unintentionally with words by virtue of snipping back, so I'm going to take now to more explicitly clarify: Even with the thing about Anti-Bravoman, I was more getting at the idea that agreeing with the SK was not a good reason to townread Wes, not as a point to kill over, which... is entirely unclear that sounded like I want to kill Wes.

I'm also not entirely happy with the idea of going back to Espy now that I've had a sip of the two town rolecop kool-aid, but if I had to that is, for the record, still my strongest read despite this interaction kinda rubbing me the wrong way.]]

 

[HelloYellow17]

"Wes," Mike spoke, coming back from the strange world-between-worlds he had been skimming, "I gotta admit that that's... That's not a good look.

"It doesn't change my vote," Mike conceded, "but damn if that doesn't look bad in retrospect."

“…Yeah. I’m aware,” Wes said wearily. “But, hey, that makes two of us who did stupid things during all of this, right? You understand better than anyone what it feels like to be so certain about a theory, only to be completely wrong.”

 

[Shiny Phantump]

did you ever allude to the fact that you had information?

[[Not until lategame, because once alluding to it being about OSBP it no longer protects against non-OSBP lies. Yesterday, though, I started saying I had a "strong feeling" about Mike's innocence, which... now ya know why.

is entirely unclear, that sounded like I want to kill Wes.

Missing comma made that sentence hard to parse.]]

 

[Homestar!]

“But, hey, that makes two of us who did stupid things during all of this, right? You understand better than anyone what it feels like to be so certain about a theory, only to be completely wrong.”

Mike glared at the video game man.

"Wet fart," he muttered.

 

[HelloYellow17]

Mike glared at the video game man.

"Wet fart," he muttered.

…oh. Had that been offensive? Dammit. He hadn’t meant for it to come across that way…he was once again reminded why he loathed chatting with people.

Gods, I hate this place.

 

[Homestar!]

…oh. Had that been offensive? Dammit. He hadn’t meant for it to come across that way…he was once again reminded why he loathed chatting with people.

Gods, I hate this place.

[[For the record: you're gucci! Mike's a salty, salty boy.]]

 

[HelloYellow17]

Even with Bart on our collective scum-radar, to not commit to either Altair or Wind right now is, IMO, fishy as all hell.

It’s a risk to leave Altair alive, yes, but killing Altair will do the mafia a favor. I really think it’s worth letting him live another day and giving him the benefit of the doubt. He’s laid all the cards on the table and by siding with town, he can at least feel like he’s on the winning team, which is the most he can ask for at this point.]]

[[Juuuust quoting a few more things in my defense. I was really suspicious of Anti and a couple of people, Sind and Homestar included, also agreed that he was sus and that it was a matter of choosing between him and Altair.

But more importantly, the second quote shows my reasoning for trying to side with Altair. Would scum ever, ever, ever do this? I really don’t think so!]]

 

[HelloYellow17]

[[For the record: you're gucci! Mike's a salty, salty boy.]]

[[LOL thanks for clarifying! I figured it was all RP flavor anyway, heh]]

 

[Fusion]

Mike glared at the video game man.

"Wet fart," he muttered.

"Of all the things to call him, that is not the thing I was expected you to stick with," Reme clicked her tongue. "And it's not like he was wrong, and it's not like neither of you were forgiven."

 

[Homestar!]

"Of all the things to call him, that is not the thing I was expected you to stick with," Reme clicked her tongue. "And it's not like he was wrong, and it's not like neither of you were forgiven."

"We have four more hours here," Mike snipped, "during which a certain Gardevoir may never be thrown way high up in the air to gently float down and pretend they're a magical british nanny."

Mike heaved a sigh, "y'all are right, though. Fair enough."

 

[Chibi Pika]

There was too much noise. And now the Voice was taking over again. Ebony didn't like that at all. She'd been doing just fine on her own!

"My stupid Voice wants to say things again," Ebony grumbled, curling up next to Wes.

Spoiler: The Stupid Voice

I made my case against the idea of scum!Espy because I thought it was highly unlikely. After seeing the humongous pushback against it, I'm now growing much more convinced that I was right. Scum would be delighted to have an excuse to take the heat off their buddy--I handed it to them on a silver platter. Heck, I handed it to them before all this, with the open invitation to vote either Sparkle or Astrid, posing both options as equally viable and pro-town. This chaos screams town!Espy to me.

We've let ourselves get distracted by the lovers. I do not want to vote for the lovers. I want to focus on the other three. Astrid/Hazel/Sparkle. The idea that none of them are scum is so ridiculous I don't want to even think about it. But also--it's the scenario where we're guaranteed a win.

If we get rid of two of Astrid/Hazel/Sparkle and find ZERO scum, then the third remaining must be town, and then it MUST be Clovis/Pixie. There will still be THREE TOWN left by that point. Town Wins.

I repeat: if we have scum lovers and Astrid/Hazel/Sparkle are ALL innocent, then TOWN WINS.

Therefore: WE DO NOT VOTE CLOVIS/PIXIE UNTIL AFTER VOTING TWO OF ASTRID/SPARKLE/HAZEL. PERIOD.

There, now that we've removed the paranoia of "what if Espy's flip implicates the lovers no matter what her alignment is," on to business.

Sparkle/Hazel scumteam makes no sense, from what we've seen. Rating it lowest probability.

Sparkle/Astrid scumteam also seems weird because why would Astrid's defense just default to susing Sparkle?

Astrid/Hazel scumteam... doesn't really have any evidence in favor of it, no, but I can't think of any major things preventing it either.

Astrid appears to be the safest vote, out of these three scenarios.

So now, I want to present some questions to the three:

@SparklingEspeon - Hi, um. You're kind of on the chopping block right now. ^^; For the record, I think there are way too many reasons you can't. If you know that you're innocent (and you're the only one who can) then Astrid or Hazel should both be equally viable votes. Any preference?

@TheGOAT - Hey, sorry for all this at once, I know it's gotta be overwhelming. If you know that you're innocent (and you're the only one who can) then Sparkle or Hazel should both be equally viable votes. Any preference?

@Shiny Phantump - I really, really hope you're not scum (and if you are, sorry about Forever Scum ;riplup;) If you know that you're innocent (and you're the only one who can) then Sparkle or Astrid should both be equally viable votes. I really, really think we have a lot of strong evidence against Sparkle, unless we have the dumbest scumteam on earth. But I feel like it would be weird to bank on that...?

And for good measure: @Sinderella If you know that you and Pixie are town, then we're in a pretty good spot tbh because so long as you two don't ever get voted, mathematically, town can't lose. With only two scum left, we would have to mislynch twice, which is, uh. Impossible. Unless we vote for me/yellow/fuse/homestar for some insane reason.

@HelloYellow17, @Fusion, @Homestar! Congrats! We're town, and we have a pretty good chance at controlling the vote no matter what scum does. We just have to... make sure we don't shoot wrong, lol. If the lovers are good, then I think we've already won. Since that's not a guarantee, we should still be cautious with aiming at The Problem Trio.

 

[HelloYellow17]

I was not planning to start getting at the idea that Wes must be scum, although I can see I have started conveying unintentionally with words by virtue of snipping back, so I'm going to take now to more explicitly clarify: Even with the thing about Anti-Bravoman, I was more getting at the idea that agreeing with the SK was not a good reason to townread Wes, not as a point to kill over, which... is entirely unclear that sounded like I want to kill Wes.

[[This did come as a surprise to me because it sounded exactly like you were trying to convince everyone I was scum. I mean, even if you were less direct about it, trying to insinuate that I’m not town still says that I must be scum, no? Perhaps I’m being a little cynical here, but it’s weird that you gunned for me so aggressively and then backed off as soon as Fusion and Homestar backed me up. Could just be a coincidence and genuine miscommunication, I’m willing to consider that, but I don’t understand how to interpret your arguments as anything but “here’s why Wes is scum.”]]