[TOWN WIN] Darkwhite's Role Overdrive Mafia

[bruh moment]

All in all, my main takeaways:
- I think it's basically impossible Jackie and Bluwii were scum partners (though this of course does not mean Bluwii couldn't be another anti-town faction). First Jackie led trying to start a bandwagon on him when a lot of people were suspecting him, then hastily walked it back on others' cue, then kept on sort of trying to find permission to vote Bluwii again throughout the day but still didn't actually wind up voting him. That's not bussing behaviour, it's scum hoping to manage to get a train on a townie off the ground.
- Shini defense feels, to me, like it's just a bit more determined than your standard mafia "can we really be sure about this". It doesn't make it a sure thing or anything, Jackie can act, but I was kind of expecting after Inke's post that I'd likewise conclude Jackie's Shini defense was innocuous but after my own reading I've kind of gone the other way?
- Yellow interactions also feel suspect to me. Jackie maintained that the power Yellow targeted them with made them confident she was town, yet didn't actually act from there like they were really confident she was town on a mechanical basis. That's besides me not feeling like the power Yellow has claimed should actually prompt that kind of certainty she must be town in the first place. There was an instance where Yellow expressed suspicion of Jackie because of the swap thing, but nothing really came of it and all in all I think this could easily have been deliberate distancing.

I think I'mmm just going to go ahead and be spicy and vote: HelloYellow17]]

[[ mmm. tasty spice. i'm curious, what's your read on tetra coming out of this? i kind of feel like it would be weird for them to be w/w, but i'm curious your thoughts. ]]

But I don’t see them prodding the inactives or less actives, I don’t really see them getting behind any specific voting train,

[[ i don't like prodding inactives and i didn't get behind one of the main voting trains because, as i said at the time and have said a few times since, i felt they were both villagers. what would you have me do in that situation? ]]

while casting vaguely doubtful vibes over every theory that’s brought up.

[[ citation needed ]]

Ajia blanched. "I wasn't suspicious because of the jokes. I was suspicious for other reasons, and then the jokes just... made me scared. Because I knew it was going to be that much harder to tell if you were lying.

[[ so everyone seems excited to say now that i've complained about it enough! :p ]]

 

[bruh moment]

[[ i think i could potentially be convinced of a yellow wagon today... maybe... i feel like her play is more active and considerably more probing than it was when we wolfed together last game, but maybe she just learned a lot? i'm not sure i can fully wrap my head around your posting about jackie's weird interactions with her power and its AI-ness, i'll need to look at it later. for yellow's sake i kind of hope she didn't roll wolf two times in a row, that would be rough. last game was Stress 100% -q ]]

 

[Chibi Pika]

[[Been rereading the thread and I have to say, I'm not entirely certain that Jackie's hesitancy to vote out Shini is necessarily an indictment on him. Something I notice about scum a lot is that they're very hesitant towards going all out for a mislynch, there's always some caveat to it like "oh I'm not so sure about this". Mislynching makes players look bad by default, so trying to play up at least some degree of uncertainty is how scum try to make themselves look better when the target inevitably flips innocent. I think that's what's happening here.]]

Ajia bit her lip. "I thought about this. But I don't think it was Laura's guardian not wanting to look bad. And my Guardian has some reasons why."

[[Jackie was extremely tired and sick. The vote situation was a mess. I was very insistent on voting Shini, and Dragonfree was side-eyeing him too. It would have been so, so easy for Jackie to just go "I trust them, listen to them" like Jackie has done every time they were town and also townreading me. One time, they were so tired they tried to convince the GM to let me cast their vote. It would be the easiest thing in the world to just go "sure I trust Chibi" and then whoops! Got a townie killed. It wouldn't have looked bad on them in the slightest. But no. Jackie was so hesitant they got me and Dragonfree to re-evaluate. I don't like it.]]

vote: Fray [Shini]

 

[Dragonfree]

[[ i think i could potentially be convinced of a yellow wagon today... maybe... i feel like her play is more active and considerably more probing than it was when we wolfed together last game, but maybe she just learned a lot? i'm not sure i can fully wrap my head around your posting about jackie's weird interactions with her power and its AI-ness, i'll need to look at it later. for yellow's sake i kind of hope she didn't roll wolf two times in a row, that would be rough. last game was Stress 100% -q ]]

[[The whole bit about its alignment-indicativeness is kind of besides the point; mostly it's just something in Jackie's posts that makes me huh. The important bit is Jackie claimed twice that Yellow's power that they were targeted with made them confident she was town, yet both times went on to not actually act like they considered Yellow hardtown - first by immediately walking it back after a Sindpost, then after the second time they claimed it with a readlist that merely had Yellow as soft town. To me, it reads like Jackie wanted to assert they had mechanical evidence for Yellow being town, but also didn't want to seem too sure about it. As genuine town who genuinely posts that they're pretty fucking sure Yellow's power is town and that she's provisional hardtown, would they really not post anything about why they're reevaluating that evidence when they go on to walk it back?]]

 

[HelloYellow17]

[[I really don’t have the spoons for this lol.

Has it ever occurred to you that Jackie did all of this to gain town cred and to get me, a townie, to get behind them and rally for them? Because they absolutely convinced me that they were town. And now I realize everything I’ve said looks bad, not because of anything I’ve said or done, but because Jackie was shadowing me from behind all along. So, cool, I guess.

If Jackie and I really were scum buddies (which we aren’t, but I don’t expect anybody to believe me anyway at this point,) then why would I come forward about having targeted Jackie in the first place. Why would I have revealed my entire ability and patron and risk getting stringed (which I did) if I were scum?

And yet nobody is acknowledging the fact that Bluwii hasn’t said or done anything to defend himself. Yet somehow I’m more sus. Lol shucks, wish I knew sooner that I could win the game by just not saying anything!

If Bluwii isn’t scum then he’s at the very least a TP and I’m frankly really irritated that people are just…ignoring such blatantly sus play.]]

 

[Panoramic_Vacuum]

[[The whole bit about its alignment-indicativeness is kind of besides the point; mostly it's just something in Jackie's posts that makes me huh. The important bit is Jackie claimed twice that Yellow's power that they were targeted with made them confident she was town, yet both times went on to not actually act like they considered Yellow hardtown - first by immediately walking it back after a Sindpost, then after the second time they claimed it with a readlist that merely had Yellow as soft town. To me, it reads like Jackie wanted to assert they had mechanical evidence for Yellow being town, but also didn't want to seem too sure about it. As genuine town who genuinely posts that they're pretty fucking sure Yellow's power is town and that she's provisional hardtown, would they really not post anything about why they're reevaluating that evidence when they go on to walk it back?]]

[[What are the chances Jackie didn't actually get Yellow's power and was bluffing? Jackie never gave any indication of what the power was, how it manifested, etc.

I'm still hung up on the fact that the person who is the one giving out Strings' behavior fits the bill of how Yellow's power is described to work. But, with Strings being a day mechanic, and Jackie being eliminated before today, when we had two strings happen, means that Jackie was not the Stringer and therefore might not have gotten Yellow's power.

The fact that if Shini is not lying about the JOAT powers, there is a deflection power in play. Meaning there's definitely some kind of redirection at play here, and could it be related to the general confusion surrounding Yellow's N1 target?]]

 

[HelloYellow17]

Ajia bit her lip. "I thought about this. But I don't think it was Laura's guardian not wanting to look bad. And my Guardian has some reasons why."

[[Jackie was extremely tired and sick. The vote situation was a mess. I was very insistent on voting Shini, and Dragonfree was side-eyeing him too. It would have been so, so easy for Jackie to just go "I trust them, listen to them" like Jackie has done every time they were town and also townreading me. One time, they were so tired they tried to convince the GM to let me cast their vote. It would be the easiest thing in the world to just go "sure I trust Chibi" and then whoops! Got a townie killed. It wouldn't have looked bad on them in the slightest. But no. Jackie was so hesitant they got me and Dragonfree to re-evaluate. I don't like it.]]

vote: Fray [Shini]

[[eh? Can you elaborate on this a little more? I’m mostly confused because yesterday I got the impression that Jackie and Shini were kind of going at each other all day, which is why I was feeling better about Shini today. But you’re right that Jackie was suuuuper hesitant to vote Shini…hmm. I really ought to reread the thread but I am tired and don’t really have it in me right now…]]

 

[HelloYellow17]

[[What are spoons? Forgive me for all these off topic questions.]]

[[energy levels, basically.]]

 

[Chibi Pika]

Picks apart Shini's reasoning (but calls him Torchic as the post goes on? Maybe that mistake suggests they're not partners? Or maybe they're galaxy braining and trying to make it sound like they can't even keep straight who they are (or maybe Torchic and Shini are both their partners)), says there are probably multiple swappers.

"Oh. I forgot about that. Yeah, that... is more galaxy brain than I would expect. Unless they are both partners? But... either way, it's weird..."

And yet nobody is acknowledging the fact that Bluwii hasn’t said or done anything to defend himself.

Ajia furrowed her brow. "You've said this a lot. What kind of defense do you want to hear from him? He already explained his role, and his thoughts behind what it means. What else is there? We can either believe it, or not."

She glanced at Dave's Guardian stone. "And after all of that, I really don't think Laura was working with sans."

 

[HelloYellow17]

She glanced at Dave's Guardian stone. "And after all of that, I really don't think Laura was working with sans."

[[Fair enough, Jackie did push for a Bluwii train. But is nobody considering a TP sans?]]

 

[Panoramic_Vacuum]

[[I really don’t have the spoons for this lol.

Has it ever occurred to you that Jackie did all of this to gain town cred and to get me, a townie, to get behind them and rally for them? Because they absolutely convinced me that they were town. And now I realize everything I’ve said looks bad, not because of anything I’ve said or done, but because Jackie was shadowing me from behind all along. So, cool, I guess.

If Jackie and I really were scum buddies (which we aren’t, but I don’t expect anybody to believe me anyway at this point,) then why would I come forward about having targeted Jackie in the first place. Why would I have revealed my entire ability and patron and risk getting stringed (which I did) if I were scum?

And yet nobody is acknowledging the fact that Bluwii hasn’t said or done anything to defend himself. Yet somehow I’m more sus. Lol shucks, wish I knew sooner that I could win the game by just not saying anything!

If Bluwii isn’t scum then he’s at the very least a TP and I’m frankly really irritated that people are just…ignoring such blatantly sus play.]]

[[At this point I'm inclined to give Blu the benefit of the doubt for being forthcoming about his power (whether it's entirely truthful is another matter), and also posing the possibility of a cult/TP faction in play. I'm still baffled as to why people would suspect him to be a cult leader when he's the first person to suggest that cults even exist in the first place?? I'm not saying this removes him of all suspicion, because let's be real it's a game of Mafia everyone's a least a little sus. At this point, both Bench and Blossom have gotten Blu's vote power, and nothing bad has happened to them yet?? That and a bit of meta but there are other players here who have contributed less mechanical gameplay info and have gotten way less sus because of that? That doesn't sit right with me. Today I want to take a longer look at those who have contributed less (mechanically), like Windskull, Persephone, SparklingEspeon, and Starlight, and maybe a bit at Blossom, q/mew, Sind, Torchic, and Tetra? It's a big game, and those are the folks I'm probably most null on in terms of getting a handle on what they can do and where they stand in terms of alignment. Some of that list I have an idea of which way they lean, but with how many powers are bouncing around at any given time, it's hard to say with any kind of certainty.]]

 

[Inkedust]

[[Jackie was extremely tired and sick. The vote situation was a mess. I was very insistent on voting Shini, and Dragonfree was side-eyeing him too. It would have been so, so easy for Jackie to just go "I trust them, listen to them" like Jackie has done every time they were town and also townreading me. One time, they were so tired they tried to convince the GM to let me cast their vote. It would be the easiest thing in the world to just go "sure I trust Chibi" and then whoops! Got a townie killed. It wouldn't have looked bad on them in the slightest. But no. Jackie was so hesitant they got me and Dragonfree to re-evaluate. I don't like it.]]

[[That's a very good point, actually, and something I didn't even consider when backreading. I suppose scum!JOAT (assuming Shini is being honest about his role) is just a completely foreign concept to me, which is why it's tripping me up. Jackie could've also have just done this for town-cred but scum buddies trying to protect each other is a very possible explanation here, so I'm giving Shini a mild side-eye now. I'm still curious about Yellow though, since her play has been striking me as pretty towny and is coming off as more as a victim of circumstance as opposed to actually Mafia. Also I wouldn't put it past Jackie to consider Yellow's ability to be towny since Yellow is essentially a Motivator with an extra caveat of blocking the player on the night they're targeted.

I'm still overall concerned about Bluwii but Jackie flipping Mafia throws a wrench into things and I want to hear what Wind has to say (since apparently, Wind has a strong feeling that Bluwii is lying about his role and will explain why later--gives me strong "I found the SK in vanilla mafia" vibes.]]

 

[Dragonfree]

[[ mmm. tasty spice. i'm curious, what's your read on tetra coming out of this? i kind of feel like it would be weird for them to be w/w, but i'm curious your thoughts. ]]

[[I'm not entirely sure what to think about Tetra. I can sort of see a world in which the Tetra push was bussing the totally inactive scum in the hope of getting mad towncred out of it; I did notice an RP(?) post Jackie made, I think around when the Tetra train was happening but I didn't check, about how wouldn't it be nice if they just stumbled into eliminating scum. And then once Tetra did actually arrive on the scene they'd walk it back. But I think it's likelier Tetra is just town.]]

 

[Chibi Pika]

[[Fair enough, Jackie did push for a Bluwii train. But is nobody considering a TP sans?]]

Ajia's ear flicked. "I am considering that. But right now we have a ton of new information from the reveal that Laura was mafia, and we can use that to figure out who her teammates are, so that's what I'm focused on."

 

[HelloYellow17]

Today I want to take a longer look at those who have contributed less (mechanically), like Windskull, Persephone, SparklingEspeon, and Starlight, and maybe a bit at Blossom, q/mew, Sind, Torchic, and Tetra?

[[Sigh. Fair enough. Fwiw, the fact that Jackie appeared to try to push a vote train on Tetra yesterday after I placed a pressure vote does make me less suspicious of her for now. But I’d still like to hear more from all of these people. Blossom and Torchic seem town leaning…I think? Ugh idk anymore. Need to read through the thread and I really don’t have the energy for it right now.

Unvote: Bluwiikoon]]

 

[Panoramic_Vacuum]

[[Sigh. Fair enough. Fwiw, the fact that Jackie appeared to try to push a vote train on Tetra yesterday after I placed a pressure vote does make me less suspicious of her for now. But I’d still like to hear more from all of these people. Blossom and Torchic seem town leaning…I think? Ugh idk anymore. Need to read through the thread and I really don’t have the energy for it right now.

Unvote: Bluwiikoon]]

[[It's a long day. We've got two players who are indisposed right now saying they have info to share when they return. The excitement of the early day is a lot, but we've also got a long way to go with the day overall, too. Take a break, rest up, recharge, and get ready for the next wave <3]]

 

[Inkedust]

At this point, both Bench and Blossom have gotten Blu's vote power

[[But neither Bench nor Blossom claimed to receive any boons or benefits, which is the thing that makes me :thonk: the most. From what I've gathered, each ability that affects a player mechanically in some way has a clear tell to it (Dread notification, diamond mark, whatever those Strings are), so I find it odd that this one apparently doesn't. I'll wait on more info to crop up before I harp on this again, however. I think we should make like Chibi and decide who Jackie's scum buddies might be based on how D2 played out.]]

 

[Dragonfree]

[[Anyway, I'm going to bed, but I'm planning to look through Yellow's own posts tomorrow and reevaluate whether I want to stick with this vote or move to Shini.]]

 

[bruh moment]

To me, it reads like Jackie wanted to assert they had mechanical evidence for Yellow being town, but also didn't want to seem too sure about it. As genuine town who genuinely posts that they're pretty fucking sure Yellow's power is town and that she's provisional hardtown, would they really not post anything about why they're reevaluating that evidence when they go on to walk it back?

[[ this does make sense to me, but i don't know if i'm convinced enough of it being the only (or most obvious) explanation to fully commit to it myself. i don't know how to articulate my hangup here. i feel like that discussion was a place jackie didn't want to be in, and they may have just thrown out some read that they felt logically followed from analysis of the night actions in the world that they're town, then walked it back when it wasn't pressing anymore. TMI type stuff; yeah, they wouldn't make those posts if they were genuine town, but we know they weren't. i have a harder time drawing a line from that to w!yellow. i need to look back over this when i'm less sleepy, perhaps, but i feel like carelessness on jackie's part there might adequately explain the situation. even as i say all this i'm intrigued by this wagon, think there could be something here, and want to see where it goes. i may end up moving here depending on how the rest of the day proceeds and what impressions i get from revisiting these posts.

re: yellow's blu push—i'm a bit confused by the urgency here. i feel like blu actually addressed the suspicions on him a lot better than tetra did. (i still find it weird that there was so much squinting at tetra that a simple "oh i was just playing video games" post that i predicted hours in advance was sufficient to dispel.) not that i'm actually suspicious of tetra, mind, but the difference in the way the two are being treated feels potentially agendaed to me. as for why i'm not voting on or suspicious of blu—dragonfree laid it out better than i could, but i've been thinking since SoD that it just doesn't make a lot of sense for him to be partnered with jackie, and besides that his play since suspicion started landing on him is pretty different from what i'd expect from him if he's actually mafia. -q ]]

 

[bruh moment]

[[Fair enough, Jackie did push for a Bluwii train. But is nobody considering a TP sans?]]

[[ fwiw, i do think this is fairly likely, but my focus is and will remain on hunting scum. -q ]]