[[This is kind of a fascinating remark that's jumping out at me now that I'm reading through Chibi's posts. "The" good guy with bulletproof? Have we established somewhere that there are exactly two bulletproofs, one town and one scum? Even if we had, wouldn't "the" good guy with bulletproof then be presumed to be Mike, who had claimed bulletproof on the previous day, and thus would hardly be targeted by the mafia? Or is Chibi just invisibly assuming that Mike isn't really bulletproof at all, without comment? It feels weirdly like Chibi knows something we don't here.]]"Maybe... Altair got attacked by the serial killer? Lying about being attacked would be really risky! He'd have no way of knowing if the good guy with bulletproof got hit instead."
[[
Worth noting here you called for the extension. They jumped on your attempt to do so, and saying that they made the last-ditch attempt discounts who they were replying to in the first place:
So, given this, I'm seeing two possibilities here:
- You're both mafia, and Chibi is throwing you under the bus to gain trust.
or
- You're mafia, and trying to get us to change targets.
I don't see an option here where you're innocent, mostly because in attempting to damn Chibi, you've further implicated and condemned yourself.
My vote stands.]]
Worth noting here you called for the extension. They jumped on your attempt to do so, and saying that they made the last-ditch attempt discounts who they were replying to in the first place:
So, given this, I'm seeing two possibilities here:
- You're both mafia, and Chibi is throwing you under the bus to gain trust.
or
- You're mafia, and trying to get us to change targets.
I don't see an option here where you're innocent, mostly because in attempting to damn Chibi, you've further implicated and condemned yourself.
My vote stands.]]
[[Multiple people were discussing the possibility of day extension. I wrote that in response to Fuse's remark here. Like I said, we were all reluctant to eliminate Porygon. I believe Steven also suggested at one point that we vote him in order to get the day extended.]]
[[So if multiple people were suggesting it, then why should it hold any weight against Chibi?
If it should hold weight against them, shouldn't it hold weight against the others (IE: You)?]]
[[I said myself in that very post that none of this is damning because we were all reluctant to eliminate Porygon. My whole argument there is that Chibi's Porygon vote is not inexorable proof that they must be innocent, not that it proves they're scum.]]
[[That's fair.
So that post is mostly brainstorming: seeing if and how Chibi could be mafia. Laying out some Mikeposting that could have possibly happened if they were Mafia.
Is there anything else to provide that points to their guilt?]]
[[I quoted one kind of funny post above (that touches on Mike), if you missed it.
Examining Chibi's posts on D2:
- First, they just vote Bartholomew, without taking any stance on the ongoing Anti vs. Altair debacle. This is a little puzzling to me because Chibi is usually the first person to sound the alarm when people immediately try to cast suspicion on claimed power roles. They had also, of course, tried to keep suspicion on Mike as claimed rolecop on D1, though that obviously also makes perfect sense if they're just town rolecop like they claim.
- Next, they try to cast suspicion on Anti. It's not unreasonable to wonder about this, I had the same thought as I mentioned in the thread there too, but nonetheless, it is an effort to make the claimed cop suspect...
- ...and then they reaffirm that suspicion here (though pointing out the "we" thing in particular was silly).
- Finally, they announce Bartholomew is absolutely definitely scum and the town should insta-yeet him tomorrow.
They don't at any point express any form of reluctance to kill the claimed cop, which I find pretty strange; they don't actually vote for him, but are happy to keep people wary of Anti, and really want everyone to keep going after Bartholomew D3.]]
Examining Chibi's posts on D2:
- First, they just vote Bartholomew, without taking any stance on the ongoing Anti vs. Altair debacle. This is a little puzzling to me because Chibi is usually the first person to sound the alarm when people immediately try to cast suspicion on claimed power roles. They had also, of course, tried to keep suspicion on Mike as claimed rolecop on D1, though that obviously also makes perfect sense if they're just town rolecop like they claim.
- Next, they try to cast suspicion on Anti. It's not unreasonable to wonder about this, I had the same thought as I mentioned in the thread there too, but nonetheless, it is an effort to make the claimed cop suspect...
- ...and then they reaffirm that suspicion here (though pointing out the "we" thing in particular was silly).
- Finally, they announce Bartholomew is absolutely definitely scum and the town should insta-yeet him tomorrow.
They don't at any point express any form of reluctance to kill the claimed cop, which I find pretty strange; they don't actually vote for him, but are happy to keep people wary of Anti, and really want everyone to keep going after Bartholomew D3.]]
[[Honestly this is the juicy stuff I was looking for. A little slip, yes, but I am starting to see your point of view.
They tunneled Bart pretty hard, and it would be in a Mafia RC's best interest to eliminate any claimed docs, so as to remove protection from anyone else.
This is also true. Wiki sez that Cop will turn up whether or not someone is "not town," so they can find the SK, so that does look like throwing a little smoke.
At this point, I feel like it behooves me to mention one more tidbit that I had been pocketing:
The Rules call the role "Juggernaut." They do not call it "Strong-man." And I feel like that's a pretty strange mistake to make.]]
[[I do want to say again, because I really like to repeat myself on this point because it's genuinely just a thing that bugs me okay, that we really can't actually assume for sure that Namo is GMing everything like the wiki says in this game; remember, we had healer clash, which is mentioned nowhere on the wiki page for the doctor role]]
[[Huh, though, that's an interesting point. One would assume the role names used in the list Namo wrote up are the ones he's actually using? Though Chibi was speaking in character there so maybe it's just that Ebony wouldn't know the word 'juggernaut'?]]
[[*Strong-guy, my mistake. I've been sitting on that for a while and got excited. I was leaning towards it being a slip-up, but Chibi's attitude towards Bart actually made me wanna step forward with it.
I feel like, even in-character, the RC would always try to report exactly what they were told. However, a liar would probably use the terms they are most familiar with. Given that Chibi is an experienced player (from what I've gleaned) I'm beginning to think that she searched her mind for the damning mafia role, came up with "strong-guy," and hit enter.
Unfortunately, I'm not entirely sure yet that this clears up your innocence. And I dunno if enough players are going to want to risk sacrificing the town RC based on everything. However, if you flip town, I strongly recommend that we sacrifice Chibi on Day 5.
I also have a sinking feeling that there's simply not enough active people today to unvote for you, Free. And I do feel like voting for you is the correct tactical choice.]]
I feel like, even in-character, the RC would always try to report exactly what they were told. However, a liar would probably use the terms they are most familiar with. Given that Chibi is an experienced player (from what I've gleaned) I'm beginning to think that she searched her mind for the damning mafia role, came up with "strong-guy," and hit enter.
Unfortunately, I'm not entirely sure yet that this clears up your innocence. And I dunno if enough players are going to want to risk sacrificing the town RC based on everything. However, if you flip town, I strongly recommend that we sacrifice Chibi on Day 5.
I also have a sinking feeling that there's simply not enough active people today to unvote for you, Free. And I do feel like voting for you is the correct tactical choice.]]
[[To be entirely fair the role is commonly called a strongman, and I think it has been called that in previous games here, so it's not unreasonable to be calling it that... but raises a bit more of an eyebrow if it's when reporting the results of a PM that presumably would have used "juggernaut". Nonetheless, could just be an in-character thing.]]
[[Not immediately seeing anything particularly noteworthy about the rest of Chibi's posts, though brain's kind of zoning out trying to reason about all the tables about roles and I think I need to take a break from this. The way things look I probably need to go write some death flavor anyway.
Wish I had more useful thoughts on the rest of the mafia beyond what we've already established but I'm not sure what else to conclude from mafia Chibi; there's just a lot of wine-in-front-of-me there which is also giving me a headache to think about and I'm not sure it's useful. Ugh.]]
Wish I had more useful thoughts on the rest of the mafia beyond what we've already established but I'm not sure what else to conclude from mafia Chibi; there's just a lot of wine-in-front-of-me there which is also giving me a headache to think about and I'm not sure it's useful. Ugh.]]
Flyg0n
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[[When Free flips scum, Chibi is exonerated. We established why trades are tactically terrible for mafia and gets them killed.
Chibi scum would not make any sense as when Free flips supposedly 'innocent' we can just kill chibi next day easy peasy.
Even if they kill two lovers tonight it wouldn't be enough to make them win.
Anyways in case I die in the night.
I guarantee you the last two scum are among Phan/Espy/Goat.
Scum!Free casting some suspicion mostly on Espy in the initial response post might mean Espy is our remaining town. Maybe.
Phans response to being accused was a sort of smoke blow/nitpicking but I don't have time to psycoanalyze that.
Goat is impossible to read but so far all we have remaining are people who have claimed a power role or vanilla so duh. Someone is lying.
Personal opinion? Probably try Goat tomorrow, dunno.
Its worth noting again that Espys reaction to being accused was to be (what seems to be) honest attempts to clear stuff but if they are scum, their claims were ill thought out and sloppy, so I still find them odd for scum.
I'm exhausted honestly and don't have time to go back and review but perhaps tomorrow, with time, I could.
Also for the love of Pete please if by some miracle Chibi lives the night we can't kill them unless Free flipped innocent (they won't).
And uh.... I don't have a lot else to say.
I'll try to post my final Readlist one last time. ]]
Chibi scum would not make any sense as when Free flips supposedly 'innocent' we can just kill chibi next day easy peasy.
Even if they kill two lovers tonight it wouldn't be enough to make them win.
Anyways in case I die in the night.
I guarantee you the last two scum are among Phan/Espy/Goat.
Scum!Free casting some suspicion mostly on Espy in the initial response post might mean Espy is our remaining town. Maybe.
Phans response to being accused was a sort of smoke blow/nitpicking but I don't have time to psycoanalyze that.
Goat is impossible to read but so far all we have remaining are people who have claimed a power role or vanilla so duh. Someone is lying.
Personal opinion? Probably try Goat tomorrow, dunno.
Its worth noting again that Espys reaction to being accused was to be (what seems to be) honest attempts to clear stuff but if they are scum, their claims were ill thought out and sloppy, so I still find them odd for scum.
I'm exhausted honestly and don't have time to go back and review but perhaps tomorrow, with time, I could.
Also for the love of Pete please if by some miracle Chibi lives the night we can't kill them unless Free flipped innocent (they won't).
And uh.... I don't have a lot else to say.
I'll try to post my final Readlist one last time. ]]
HelloYellow17
Gym Leader
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[[Both of these feel like flimsy arguments because they simply read as RP flavor to me. “The good guy with bullet-proof” and “the strong-guy” just read as Ebony’s way of addressing other characters, not as some kind of slip-up. Tefiren did this all the time last game with everyone. These particular arguments don’t hold much water, IMO.]]
[[Even if "the good guy with bulletproof" was meant as simply an in-character epithet for Mike (though I don't think that's really been part of Ebony's character), though, that post still doesn't make any sense! Because if it was, then he'd already claimed so of course the mafia wouldn't have targeted him (and if they had they'd obviously know that's where the bullet went), and Chibi shouldn't have known that there couldn't be another bulletproof good guy.]]
[[Yeah, it's not super strong, but Free convinced me enough that there might be something to the Scum!Chibi claim that I felt like pointing it out to get people's thoughts on it.]]
Flyg0n
Flygon connoisseur
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[[Before I post readlist though I did find it weird that Free didn't just claim properly yesterday that there are guranteed 2 doctor which would have been helpful to us to know on that particular day, but kept that to themselves which was... unhelpful. No reason to keep that hint close to the vest imo.
But either way Chibi's claim stands. Based on the sacrifice logic not making any sense, I still say Free must go.
Astrid/TheGoat, Hazel/Phan, Espy/Sylveon.
Only one of the above can be town.
If we kill two of them and the game is somehow still going, then we can peer closer at lovers/others.
Apologies but I simply was too wiped to post more/lay out more suspicions clearer.]]
But either way Chibi's claim stands. Based on the sacrifice logic not making any sense, I still say Free must go.
- Wes-Town (claimed vanilla, plays very town, if somehow scum I'll eat my hat)
- Sind-... town Lover (I tend to believe them and iff not, they are my last concern atm.)
- Pixie-... town Lover
- Free-Scum!Strongman (According to Chibi. Vanilla town according to themselves)
- Phan-Sus? {Claimed vanilla town} (They played town well but so did Free, and when Free flips scum this proves the 'stealth scum can act like town' theory. If I don't live, keep an eye on them.
- Chibi- {Claimed Town RC} Town or we're in trouble (When Free flips innocent we should clear them 100% imo)
- Me-Lover town
- Homestate-????town.../OSBP (most likely town, we've all mostly agreed.)
- Astrid/The Goat - {Claimed Vanilla town} Who knows. Impossible to properly read. Few posts. Must review. Seemed oddly wishywashy about their hint maybe? I have nothing concrete for or against them but worth keeping an eye on)
- Sylveon- {Claimed vanilla town} Who knows. I, however, mantain that their defense if they are scum is oddly flimsy and poorly thought out, plus scum!Free gunned for them when initially accused, so they make for a flimsy scum. IMO they seeem like they play more like absent town. Not sure however.
- Abra-Lover town (absent)
- Reme- Town (Cleared by Anti the cop)
Astrid/TheGoat, Hazel/Phan, Espy/Sylveon.
Only one of the above can be town.
If we kill two of them and the game is somehow still going, then we can peer closer at lovers/others.
Apologies but I simply was too wiped to post more/lay out more suspicions clearer.]]
[[I waffled over whether I should, but I was still thinking SparklingEspeon or TheGOAT might attempt to claim doctor and I'd be able to catch them out that way.]]
Ebony had been silent for a long time, remaining behind the armchair. She hadn't wanted to say anything else for the rest of the day. But this was probably going to be her last day. So she had to say something.
"I know we can't prove that the rock guy was rolecop. I know that. I just think it makes more sense than the other options. That's all." She paused for a long while, mulling it over. "Maybe... one of your teammates really is a rolecop? So, combined with Wes's hint, you know for a fact that we're wrong about the rock guy? I guess I can see why that would be frustrating."
"I still think Sylveon is bad. Jean's Voice started out suspicious of her because we didn't have anyone else suspicious. Then she had to vote for me. So... there wasn't really a good time to change her mind about Sylveon, and it would look weird if she did."
Ebony wanted the day to be over.
"Since Jean is... on the bad guy team..."--she couldn't bring herself to say 'is a bad guy' --"it makes sense that her Voice wants to get rid of me." Ebony smiled weakly, even though no one could see it. "You did a good job finding all my mistakes. You're really smart. I wish we could have been on the same team."
The only members of Team Experiments left would be Ebony and Hazel. Hazel still seemed like a friend.
"Good luck everyone," Ebony told her friends.
"I know we can't prove that the rock guy was rolecop. I know that. I just think it makes more sense than the other options. That's all." She paused for a long while, mulling it over. "Maybe... one of your teammates really is a rolecop? So, combined with Wes's hint, you know for a fact that we're wrong about the rock guy? I guess I can see why that would be frustrating."
"I still think Sylveon is bad. Jean's Voice started out suspicious of her because we didn't have anyone else suspicious. Then she had to vote for me. So... there wasn't really a good time to change her mind about Sylveon, and it would look weird if she did."
Ebony wanted the day to be over.
"Since Jean is... on the bad guy team..."--she couldn't bring herself to say 'is a bad guy' --"it makes sense that her Voice wants to get rid of me." Ebony smiled weakly, even though no one could see it. "You did a good job finding all my mistakes. You're really smart. I wish we could have been on the same team."
The only members of Team Experiments left would be Ebony and Hazel. Hazel still seemed like a friend.
"Good luck everyone," Ebony told her friends.