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[Town victory] Vanilla Mafia!

Homestar!

Mikeposter/Galaxy-Brainer
Location
NorCal
Pronouns
He/Him
Partners
  1. nidoqueen
“Look, I didn’t ask to be here, either. And…we’ve all got something to lose back home. The best way we’re gonna get out of here is if we work together and stop throwing suspicions around at complete random.” He paused, then added while avoiding Mike’s eyes, “And…sorry to hear about that. The hospital thing.”
"I feel for the nurses," Mike forced himself to smile, "there's a helluva lot to sponge bathe."

He heaved a sigh, relaxed into the chair, and dabbed at his eyes. "Sorry, Wes. It's been a very strange few... Days? Weeks? But you're right. I didn't mean to cast suspicions, at this point I'm pretty certain how things will shake out. But it doesn't hurt to be thorough."
 

Homestar!

Mikeposter/Galaxy-Brainer
Location
NorCal
Pronouns
He/Him
Partners
  1. nidoqueen
[[Alright, for real this time, I need to sleep. I firmly believe our final two scum (after Jean) are Espy and theGOAT.

If, somehow, there's a final four scum, the fake lovers slot into that nicely. Hell, it may even open up theGOAT's hint to be true, and then all hell breaks loose. But I really, really hope 6 total mafia is wrong.]]
 

HelloYellow17

Gym Leader
Pronouns
She/Her
Partners
  1. suicune
  2. umbreon
  3. mew
  4. lycanroc-wes
  5. leafeon-rui
"I feel for the nurses," Mike forced himself to smile, "there's a helluva lot to sponge bathe."
“…I really didn’t need that image in my head, thanks.”
He heaved a sigh, relaxed into the chair, and dabbed at his eyes. "Sorry, Wes. It's been a very strange few... Days? Weeks? But you're right. I didn't mean to cast suspicions, at this point I'm pretty certain how things will shake out. But it doesn't hurt to be thorough."
Still, he supposed he could give him some credit for attempting humor even while in such low spirits. Wes fidgeted awkwardly. “Yeah, well, we’ll get there. We’re on track for now, anyway. You’ll probably get out of here just fine and then all you’ll have to worry about is the hospital.”

Oh gods, he did not end that sentence well. Sweet baby Arceus. Comforting people was really not his thing.
 

Homestar!

Mikeposter/Galaxy-Brainer
Location
NorCal
Pronouns
He/Him
Partners
  1. nidoqueen
Still, he supposed he could give him some credit for attempting humor even while in such low spirits. Wes fidgeted awkwardly. “Yeah, well, we’ll get there. We’re on track for now, anyway. You’ll probably get out of here just fine and then all you’ll have to worry about is the hospital.”

Oh gods, he did not end that sentence well. Sweet baby Arceus. Comforting people was really not his thing.
"You know," Mike mused, "compared to the Flygon cosplayer out for my blood, the broody cryptic Charizard, the three unknown murderers and-or murderesses, and the ankle-breaking goblin, you're still pretty decent company, Wes.

"All the tact of a wet fart, but, y'know," Mike grinned, "nobody's perfect."
 

HelloYellow17

Gym Leader
Pronouns
She/Her
Partners
  1. suicune
  2. umbreon
  3. mew
  4. lycanroc-wes
  5. leafeon-rui
“Jean is the strong-guy.”
[[Quick OOC reaction to this but YOOOO my theory was right! Bye, Jean! You were very convincing town, I’m gonna have to take notes if I’m ever scum in future games lol.

Also Chibi how dare you wreck my feels with sad doggo, aww :(

I’ll post more RP reactions to all this info tomorrow, but for now I’ll just throw in my vote and call it a night.

Vote: Jean]]
 

HelloYellow17

Gym Leader
Pronouns
She/Her
Partners
  1. suicune
  2. umbreon
  3. mew
  4. lycanroc-wes
  5. leafeon-rui
"You know," Mike mused, "compared to the Flygon cosplayer out for my blood, the broody cryptic Charizard, the three unknown murderers and-or murderesses, and the ankle-breaking goblin, you're still pretty decent company, Wes.
Wes blinked. He couldn’t remember the last time someone had said he was good company. Or, well, “not bad” company, in this case. He shifted uncomfortably and muttered, “Well, it’s not like the bar’s been very high. But, ah, thanks I gue—”
"All the tact of a wet fart, but, y'know," Mike grinned, "nobody's perfect."
“I…what did you call me?”
 

Dragonfree

Moderator
Staff
Location
Iceland
Pronouns
she/her/hers
Partners
  1. butterfree
  2. mightyena
  3. charizard
  4. scyther-mia
  5. vulpix
  6. slugma
  7. chinchou
[[Yes hello what did I mi--

“Jean is the strong-guy.”
oh

Well that sure makes things a lot simpler for me, and a lot seemingly simpler but actually more complicated for you all 🙃

Guess today I'm going to have to try to persuade you all that Chibi is scum after all goddamn it.

First, I put some posts into multiquote to respond to as I was reading through...

[[Yeah, Ebony has been very aggressively town and the biggest thing that’s kept me from being suspicious is the fact that she started the Porygon train on D1. A good mafia would never start a vote train on their own teammate. That, and Salem had a hard townread on them and Salem has had stellar judgement this whole game.]]
It's really not the case that a good mafia would never start a train on their own teammate. Chances are, if there's any simple non-galaxy brain thing a good mafia would never do, mafia will sometimes do it, so that people will say well this clears them because a good mafia would never do that.

Just last game, Equi (mafia) cast what I think was the first vote in the entire game, for Lusamine (mafia).

Still, I refuse to cast votes until chibi returns and @Goat and@dragonfree defend themselves too.]]
I'm still very confused as to what you have been wanting me to defend myself against (besides Chibi's accusation, of course, but this is before that even happened). You have been constantly hammering on "Free is suspicious" since yesterday but have named zero actual reasons why you think so, other than finally today one brushing unsupported mention of me supposedly gunning particularly hard for Equitial yesterday, which I don't think is even remotely true. (Is this based on, like, the fact that I spent a lot of time actually going through Equitial's posts to try to be sure how I felt about him, while everyone else more or less just took it as a given that Equi scum since the beginning of the day?)

Can you please actually explain why you've been finding me "weird"? You've been bizarrely cagey about it. I kept thinking every time you wrote confident posts about "Free is sus, she's been acting weird" that you were about to explain what you were talking about, but it never happened, and I find it super strange, like you've just been trying to plant this idea that I'm very suspicious in everyone's heads without actually having to back it up in any substantial way.

(Conveniently, it turns out today the mafia is gunning for me, ha ha ha haaa)

So night 1 you read me, ring up BP. What made you go after Anti night 2, after Altair's flip cleared him?]]
Altair's flip didn't clear Anti; the main suspicion on Anti was that the mafia had rolecopped Altair and Anti was trying to get town cred by claiming cop. Notably, Chibi also claimed to have checked Anti that night, because that was the sensible move for a town rolecop to make.

Not that I'm not pretty alarmed by SparklingEspeon claiming another rolecop oh my god are you kidding me, but checking Anti N2 is probably the least suspicious of the claimed checks.

Chibi was essentially my OCD 'let's go big' check. I also knew I was going to be sussed hard today and wanted to investigate someone who didn't have bad connotations to me, or could mechanically confirm me (I was under the impression Chibi never claimed).
I'm sorry, I'm kind of baffled that you'd been paying enough attention to know Chibi was seen as hard town but not enough to ever see that they'd claimed rolecop? As rolecop, wouldn't you want to make at least a cursory effort to check if your prospective target has claimed anything, just in case you caught them in a lie? I guess if you saw your main role as being looking for mafia (i.e. only for the juggernaut, since there's no other role in the game that could only be mafia), it makes some sense to go for someone you think is unclaimed, but even then I'd think you'd want to check.

[[If I scanned the people I believe are secretly mafia and they turned up secretly mafia, then it would look bad for me today. I knew I was going to be interrogated. Sooo it looks bad if I point at two people and say 'hey I scanned them they're bad guys go hit them not me'.
What? It doesn't look bad for someone to inspect people they thought were suspicious. Everyone here is suspicious of you for not inspecting the people you thought were suspicious. You really should have gone for them over Mike N1 (if you are town).

Espy's RC picks make zero sense to us townies, however, they make a very great deal of sense from a Mafia perspective (N1: Is Homestar a Threat, or a Helpful Idiot? N2: Is Anti really a cop? If so, kill.). I believe they lied about their N3 check: I'm willing to bet anything they double-checked Salem, found the final Doc, and pulled the trigger.
If Espy is mafia, why on earth would she even claim the people she actually checked and not just make up a list, given just how many roleclaims we have? There's zero reason to think these are the actual checks she made if she's lying.

[[They…didn’t? Our cop, Anti, exposed them]]
Homestar was referring to how the mafia supposedly shot Altair N1. That could have been the result of a rolecopping on N0 (I've explained multiple times already why I don't think we can take as a given that serial killer would show up vanilla to a rolecop), although that would also require the fact he's bulletproof too to not have shown up in the result (I guess I can believe that, if it counted as a modifier rather than the actual role, but). Either way, though, no reason mafia rolecop!Espy would have claimed to have inspected Altair when she did.

“Oh, my gods.” Wes pinched his nose in frustration. “We’ve been over this already. Steven confirmed Kent’s innocence, which confirms Hana is innocent, too. If I have to remind people of this one more time, I’m going to drown myself in that damn ocean.”
Technically, Steven softclaimed that he knew some people's roles but not their alignments, and then said he trusted Kent. This is not actually mechanical confirmation of anything. Especially now that we have a third supposed rolecop.

At this point I'm starting to think Steven may have just been a vanilla who was wrong, and Hana and Kent have been coasting all too easily on that ever since. Logically, it's definitely either that, Yellow lied about her hint, or one of Chibi/Espy is not a rolecop at all, of any alignment.

Either way, Chibi is mafia, will take a closer look tomorrow at their actions.]]
 

Dragonfree

Moderator
Staff
Location
Iceland
Pronouns
she/her/hers
Partners
  1. butterfree
  2. mightyena
  3. charizard
  4. scyther-mia
  5. vulpix
  6. slugma
  7. chinchou
[[Forgot to actually claim in all that. I'm vanilla and my hint was that there are two doctors. I've alluded to this previously.]]
 

Fusion

Oh knee on
Location
Here, silly
Pronouns
Him/His
Partners
  1. zoroark
I hope @Fusion can offer any logic posts? he's also 100% town]]

Reme sat in a chair, watching the fire crackle in the fireplace as the others managed to keep that fire contained. Salem had passed, and her friends looked to be mourning. Ebony had claimed Jean as "the strong guy," which, sure, could be true, and to be expected, Jean's Voice retorted. Neither of them were really convincing, and in all honesty, Reme's Voice was too... "out of it" as he put it, to remember why either of them would have seemed innocent in the first place.

Other than one or the other being adorably cute and sweet for most of this, but considering the first Mafia they got rid of was that Porygon, being sweet and cute meant literally nothing.

There was also the Sylveon, claiming role cop and fumbling a bit according to Jean...

"Unfortunately, I have nothing. Neither does my Voice," Reme said, crossing her legs and sighing. "My Voice has been caught up in what he calls "Real Life Matters," a statement that put into question everything I know and held dear, but that's beside the point. He isn't going to be of much help... He may try, but... don't hold your breaths."

"As for me, obviously, we have Jean and Ebony as our two targets of today, but we also have the suspicious behavior of the Sylveon and their Voice. We can roll a 50/50 on Jean and Ebony and hope we shoot right, or go for the one we think might be more suspicious than either of them and vote Sylveon." She sunk into her chair, sighing deeply.

"I can hardly recall who was more innocent looking before today, and neither of their messages seem... desperate. One would have to ask why Ebony would suddenly attack someone who had little suspicion on them, instead of one of the more suspect potential-innocents, if she was not telling the truth. As far as everyone knew, as least... if I am remembering correctly, Jean was seen as fairly well as innocent. So why would any of the Mafia waste time trying to throw them under the bus?"

Technically, Steven softclaimed that he knew some people's roles but not their alignments, and then said he trusted Kent. This is not actually mechanical confirmation of anything. Especially now that we have a third supposed rolecop.

The Gardevoir shook her head, somewhat in thought. "I do have to ask Jean's Voice, that if Steven alluded to knowing someone's role, then said that he trusted someone, and then died and was revealed as innocent... how that isn't some sort of proof towards someone's innocence? It's quite clear that all of the vanillas had information given to them for their lack of powers, so even if Steven wasn't a rolecop, if he had information pointing to someone's role, and trusted a specific person, and he himself was revealed to be innocent... then whoever he trusted is more likely to be innocent as well."

"Not to say we shouldn't put any and all information under scrutiny, but if you or anyone else had felt Steven's information was false, why only bring it up now? Assuming that Sylveon is a real rolecop, I doubt they would have ignored any suspicion towards Kent and Hana if anyone rose that suspicion."
 

Flyg0n

Flygon connoisseur
Pronouns
She/her
Partners
  1. flygon
  2. swampert
  3. ho-oh
  4. crobat
  5. orbeetle
  6. joltik
  7. salandit
  8. tyrantrum
  9. porygon
[[A good try, Free! Not changing my vote. >:]]
 

Dragonfree

Moderator
Staff
Location
Iceland
Pronouns
she/her/hers
Partners
  1. butterfree
  2. mightyena
  3. charizard
  4. scyther-mia
  5. vulpix
  6. slugma
  7. chinchou
"I can hardly recall who was more innocent looking before today, and neither of their messages seem... desperate. One would have to ask why Ebony would suddenly attack someone who had little suspicion on them, instead of one of the more suspect potential-innocents, if she was not telling the truth. As far as everyone knew, as least... if I am remembering correctly, Jean was seen as fairly well as innocent. So why would any of the Mafia waste time trying to throw them under the bus?"
[[By the end of yesterday, half the thread had decided I was suspicious (largely because Chibi brought up having trouble reading me generally and not feeling confident enough in their townread on me, and Tetra has been insisting in the background that mm-hmm Jean is totally suspicious for a while now, without actually stating any reason why. My own vague assessment was I was generally being considered the most suspicious of the townreads who were having to be reevaluated, but I'm sure others can weigh in on that. Today people were already starting to gun for me before Chibi ever made this claim.]]

The Gardevoir shook her head, somewhat in thought. "I do have to ask Jean's Voice, that if Steven alluded to knowing someone's role, then said that he trusted someone, and then died and was revealed as innocent... how that isn't some sort of proof towards someone's innocence? It's quite clear that all of the vanillas had information given to them for their lack of powers, so even if Steven wasn't a rolecop, if he had information pointing to someone's role, and trusted a specific person, and he himself was revealed to be innocent... then whoever he trusted is more likely to be innocent as well."

"Not to say we shouldn't put any and all information under scrutiny, but if you or anyone else had felt Steven's information was false, why only bring it up now? Assuming that Sylveon is a real rolecop, I doubt they would have ignored any suspicion towards Kent and Hana if anyone rose that suspicion."
[[I literally did already bring this up multiple times myself. We don't know if Steven was actually a rolecop; that was just something we assumed. In the post where he said he knew some people's roles but not their alignments, he also said that he might turn out to be wrong. This could just be in-character uncertainty, but I'm reluctant to brush it off. Possible explanations for what we observed, given Steven is innocent:

- Steven was rolecop, and he had read Hana/Kent and discovered they were lovers, and therefore correctly concluded they were town
- Steven was rolecop, and he had read Hana/Kent and discovered they were lovers, and therefore assumed they were town, but since a rolecop doesn't actually see alignment, they were actually mafia lovers
- Steven was a vanilla innocent with a piece of info that one way or another made him find Kent's lover claim credible, and thus figure he must be innocent
- Steven was something else entirely and just figured that out from Hana's behaviour anyway, and thus assumed Kent must be innocent

Originally the reason I brought this up was that I found it very strange that there'd be two different town rolecops, not to cast suspicion on Hana/Kent. Right now we've got two non-Stevens claiming rolecop, which means either at least one of them is lying about being rolecop altogether, Steven wasn't a rolecop, or Yellow's hint was fake. This is indisputable.]]
 

Flyg0n

Flygon connoisseur
Pronouns
She/her
Partners
  1. flygon
  2. swampert
  3. ho-oh
  4. crobat
  5. orbeetle
  6. joltik
  7. salandit
  8. tyrantrum
  9. porygon
[[I can't do the math right now and I refuse to make giant logic posts if I can avoid it but!

IF you do the math, mafia can't afford to change a life for a life and if Free flipped innocent after Chibis claim we'd just kill chibi. Mafia trying to pull some galaxy brained ploy is instant death for them. So, yeah, won't be swayed. ]]
 

Dragonfree

Moderator
Staff
Location
Iceland
Pronouns
she/her/hers
Partners
  1. butterfree
  2. mightyena
  3. charizard
  4. scyther-mia
  5. vulpix
  6. slugma
  7. chinchou
[[A good try, Free! Not changing my vote. >:]]
[[No seriously please explain your actual line of reasoning for all the vague mmmHHHhehH yeahhah free is SO SUSPICIOUS YOU GUYS for the past two days, this is driving me nuts by this point]]
 

Fusion

Oh knee on
Location
Here, silly
Pronouns
Him/His
Partners
  1. zoroark
"Honestly, I'd also like to hear why you think Jean is suspect," Reme said, procuring an apple from her bag. "Not because I believe their claims wholeheartedly, although yes there is sense to them, I'm just curious about what you found that tipped you off to them."

"And if it doesn't need to be a massive "logic post," you don't have to make it one. Unless your reasoning is because they looked at you funny."
 

Flyg0n

Flygon connoisseur
Pronouns
She/her
Partners
  1. flygon
  2. swampert
  3. ho-oh
  4. crobat
  5. orbeetle
  6. joltik
  7. salandit
  8. tyrantrum
  9. porygon
[[Driving you nuts how I knew you were mafia the whole time? 😏

Myeh, I'll bite. But not right now. I will be indisposed most of the day so perhaps tonight I will. Explain better some of my suspicions.

For now I'll just reminder any late comers to this debacle that the 'chibi is some how galaxy trading a life for a life' is still a mafia death sentence]]
 

Fusion

Oh knee on
Location
Here, silly
Pronouns
Him/His
Partners
  1. zoroark
"That is fair, and a conclusion I came up with myself," Reme nodded. "Perhaps me and my Voice aren't as out of this as we thought..."
 

Dragonfree

Moderator
Staff
Location
Iceland
Pronouns
she/her/hers
Partners
  1. butterfree
  2. mightyena
  3. charizard
  4. scyther-mia
  5. vulpix
  6. slugma
  7. chinchou
[[No, the persistent loud voicing of vague suspicions without anything resembling reasoning, without even being restricted by a character voice like Chibi, drives me nuts. Does nobody else think that's super weird? I would have been assuming this was an 'I know things because of my role that I don't want to reveal and that's why I think this' thing, but supposedly Hana is a lover, who wouldn't have any such information.]]
 

Fusion

Oh knee on
Location
Here, silly
Pronouns
Him/His
Partners
  1. zoroark
"I still think it is weird, yes, but if Hana's Voice is indisposed for a time then we can't don't anything about it," Reme said. "I understand you are frustrated, but I'd like to ask for more of your patience in the matter. Hana's Voice will explain themselves in due time."
 

Homestar!

Mikeposter/Galaxy-Brainer
Location
NorCal
Pronouns
He/Him
Partners
  1. nidoqueen
[[There's a lot to process here, and I'm gonna go about picking at the seams, then make a more general post.

It's really not the case that a good mafia would never start a train on their own teammate. Chances are, if there's any simple non-galaxy brain thing a good mafia would never do, mafia will sometimes do it, so that people will say well this clears them because a good mafia would never do that.
This is true. And it's a good way to garner trust.

Altair's flip didn't clear Anti; the main suspicion on Anti was that the mafia had rolecopped Altair and Anti was trying to get town cred by claiming cop.
This is false. After doing some research, a cop will get a result similar to "town" or "not town." For Wind, they seemed to be getting "Innocent" or "Guilty." Altair flipping as expected did clear Wind, as it verified his claim as Cop.

If Espy is mafia, why on earth would she even claim the people she actually checked and not just make up a list, given just how many roleclaims we have? There's zero reason to think these are the actual checks she made if she's lying.
I was throwing out a lot of hypotheses to see what stuck; this is one of the ones that didn't. I didn't understand how RC worked, so I assumed they would get immediate results.

(I've explained multiple times already why I don't think we can take as a given that serial killer would show up vanilla to a rolecop),
Seeing as it's the primary reason why I personally wanna pluck out my eyes and eat them, I'm gonna go ahead and be real suspect of dragging that back up.

they were actually mafia lovers
Excuse me while I finally pluck out my eyes and eat them.

Oh, I had a reason for this multi-quote, right. I picked this out because, throughout your posts today, you didn't do very much to actually clear yourself of suspicion. You blew a ton of smoke in several different directions, but never actually made any claims that definitively exonerate yourself. You questioned other players, questioned the rules, even questioned the game. This felt like an attempt to raise suspicion of several other people all at once.

[[I can't do the math right now and I refuse to make giant logic posts if I can avoid it but!
[[Driving you nuts how I knew you were mafia the whole time? 😏
Yeah this, uh... This is incredibly unhelpful.

And you are pretty much the only reason I am inclined to believe Free's claim that Steven was wrong. Free isn't wrong that you've been going "tee hee Free sus" and not backing it up. And your "lol u mad?" posts and refusal to even break down what they're saying is frustrating at best.

Okay. Lemme summarize my thoughts in a different post.]]
 

Homestar!

Mikeposter/Galaxy-Brainer
Location
NorCal
Pronouns
He/Him
Partners
  1. nidoqueen
[[The way I see it, the only logical option today is to vote out Free.

If Chibi is right, we eliminate a mafia player and Chibi (probably) dies in the night.
If Chibi is lying, we mis-sac a non-power townie and eliminate her tomorrow.

Also Free said they were gonna convince us that Chibi was bad, but never actually did. So there's that.
Guess today I'm going to have to try to persuade you all that Chibi is scum after all goddamn it.
]]
 
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