"That fancy guy Dorien feels weird. He's bein' all defensive and actin' like he's gotta prove that every little thing he does is super normal or whatever. It's like he's really super afraid of looking weird to anybody for anything. Why's he gotta spend all his time talking about how totally not suspicious he is?"
[[Chibi first voices suspicion of Dorien for being defensive and trying to justify himself a lot.]]
Jet's tails lashed impatiently. "This is boring, I'm just gonna vote for Dorien and see what happens!"
Vote: Dorien
[[First vote on the Dorien train, posed explicitly as a "see what happens" vote. Chibi leaves shortly thereafter and is absent for EoD.]]
Suspicions
Dorien (Sinderella) - As much as I appreciate her helpfully going and finding what I was thinking of in the last game for me, I can't help but suspect she did so in the hope of preempting me doing so myself and making herself look better for it? She seems pretty preoccupied with self-defense, and still get the same vibe as from her play last game.
Altair (Inkedust) - Still just the vibe, man, I don't really have an explanation, would have to do more reading. Maybe I will overnight.]]
"Yeah. Yeah, okay, something like that. Just... shut up." May turned toward the irritating man. "I still think it's you."
[[Vote: Dorien (@Sinderella)]]
[[My vote some forty minutes later. I'd been tunneling on Sind a bit since day one, and then Chibi made that point about defensiveness which had me like yeah I do want to go for this.]]
[[So I won't have too much time to check in on the thread before the final hour hits.
I'm going to stick to my guns here and vote for Virgil, as I've felt that his presence has been generally unproductive and his defence left much to be desired.
Vote: Kichiro]]
[[Inke votes Kichiro, with no comment on Sind. This had me like "ohhh are they mafia together" but that was definitely me confirmation biasing.]]
"With that said, I'm not confident of any other scumreads. My partner is pressing lightly for us to vote for Burhalla, Kichiro or Altair, but isn't confident, and I'm not eager to vote for any of them myself. I'm still not convinced Archie is Town, and if we lose a Mailman – which I'm sure he is – it's not a grievous loss, but it also wouldn't tell us much! And I'm not suspicious of Dorien, but neither do I have much confidence that he is Town. It is a difficult choice to make...
[[Jackie says they're not suspicious of Dorien but also don't have much confidence he is town, which I'm reading as basically a null read.]]
Sus (for reasons stated below):
Bench - very nearly in the Null category, but after reviewing the mailman discussion from D1, they almost always chimed in just to say "I agree with [person]." Combine that with their lack of play, even RP, which I remember seeing much more of in their other games, I'm inclined to vote today or press more tomorrow. The surprise softclaim was also odd, but that's the primary reason I'm not voting them today.
Sind - We kind of went at it today (sorry I did come off as snippy, apologies for that, not my intention, was just frustrated in general. your post was the straw that broke the Camerupt's back [[Abra this isn't a coded message lol]]), but that inspired me to do the backread of the D1 mailman discussion, and I found that a lot of her posts were rehashes of things that had already been said, sometimes multiple times. As the basis for our disagreement today was over the "unhelpfulness" of posts, I wanted to go back and see how much theory crafting came out of it, and honestly it was less than I thought, which is why she's landing here. I do know big summary posts are her thing, but she's used them both as town and as scum... (As I was typing the mailman summary post and this readlist up, I see that two other of my more town-read players are also suspicious...)
Vote: Sinderella
[[Third vote on Sind, from Pano. She previously posted a summarypost of D1 mailman debacle, where there wasn't too much Sind and she was pretty noncommittal. Third vote on a train is often a good spot where mafia hop on, though the elaborate summaryposting prior (and her comments there matching up with what she says about Sind here) makes me doubt this could have been opportunistic.]]
[[Endlessly frustrated because I have been rereading everything and I don't feel like I am getting any suss-y vibes from anyone, which is pretty rare for me.
The only thing I have is Bench but I still don't feel ready to vote for them.
And I just don't even see any threads to pull on. Very frusterated
@IFBench Can you elaborate on why you chose to sort of out of blue mention an aspect of your power?]]
[[Tetra says she's getting no suspicious vibes from anyone.]]
[[Okay the tl;dr from me is that I still don't feel too good about Sind, Inke, or Abra.I feel a little bit better about Chibi buuuuut I'm still more confused than anything. I know a lot of people trust you, but... I just don't know. The whole "I believe this, but I'm not saying why!" just doesn't really endear me to you.]]
[[And oh CRAP it's 30 minutes from EOD. I'm leaving my vote on AbraPunk. I just don't feel like I have reason to trust you and you haven't said or done much to defend yourself. Is it doing anything now? No, but at least I'm committing to what I started and I hope this makes a statement.]]
[[Starlight doesn't feel great about Sind but chooses to vote Abra. Feel like mafia in that position would
probably just go ahead and vote Sind, although being on a competing train can also be good for mafia and voicing suspicion of Sind too might have left it open for a switch later if desired...?]]
[[ Hey, I'm back. Feeling a bit better now after taking a step back.
Gonna keep it brief and cast my vote:
Vote: Sinderella
Rationale? Well, let's look at what Inke said about me:
This is exactly what Sind has been doing the whole time, including in her post following Inke's where she mentioned being suspicious of me as well. Glad others are now calling her out for it as well, since that genuinely irked me this morning. Especially when I'm not even doing the stuff that Inke claims. :/
[[Virgil votes Sind for being unhelpful and not making new observations. This
does feel potentially opportunistic to me - Virgil'd been away for a while and then jumps in going yeah, Sind's been unhelpful.
His last post before this does indeed bring up being annoyed that other people are getting away with parroting, but doesn't name Sind specifically, while
this post is taking care to talk about it as something he already thought and others are finally noticing. Doesn't preclude that actually being the case, buuut definitely the most suspect vote so far, I think?]]
[[Holy dear fucking god fuck me and fuck this; my hormones are shooting through my head LMAO. Forgive me, I'm not mad I am just in a hormonal rage and I'm gonna explode because i don't want to get fucking voted out like this I will cry my goddamn eyes out goddammit
I'm the other Mailman y'all!!! That's why I was kinda meh in that discussion because I didn't want to say too much and get my ass ru-vealed (THATS NOT A CODE I'M WATCHING RUPAUL TAKE IT EZ LMAOOOO). I also think I put too much emphasis on how much this stupid role mattered because it's town's only line of communication so to speak, but it's clearly not that deep.
I sent the messages to Pano and Starlight--Starlight's specifically said "It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood" (Starlight your response made me laugh and I wish I could have reacted lmfaooooooo) and for Pano's I actually had to edit theirs because I damn near put "There's so many goddamn pirates in this game" but I thought that sounded too much like me so I edited it.
Kind of like our friend who's typing their posts in a fruit-vendorish fashion, my goal was to also put some pokes out to see if my letters got swapped or blocked or whatever the fuck, and it fucking figures I message another mailman. I didn't have any special information to divulge so I figured that was the best I could do for the time being, and this upcoming night I was just planning to say this in my next message. Never played this role before and really didn't know what to do, didn't even think to play off like an actual fruit vendor role like this other smartass did, so I figured I'd just send completely irrelevant things and see if I could catch a swap or a block or SOMETHING.
Once again I know this isn't indicative of my role whatsoever but again, and I cannot stress this enough, I AM A MOTHERFUCKING TOWNIE, and I'll scream it from the FUCKING ROOFTOP because UUURRRHGHGHHGHGHGHGHJHeqP P'OEIP'WQO[ I'm so aggravated I dropped the ball I'm so sorry kekwkekwkekw.]]
[[Sind drops the claim.]]
[[Too damn tired and out of time. Thought it over, and even if Archie is scum, he's definitely a Mailman and I'd rather look for info on more dangerous roles and stealthy players.]]
Lurosa grimaced, clearly uncomfortable. "I choose to vote for... Dorien."
[[One minute after Sind's mailman claim (presumably ninja'd), Jackie votes Sind, on the basis that their other main suspect, Archie, is definitely a mailman even if mafia and they'd rather look for dangerous roles. This vote also strikes me as one that
could have been opportunistic, though there's nothing definite.]]
[[Yo what the fuck. This is no good for my odds of good sleep, huh. Fuckssake, uh... I need to think about this. 20 minutes left. Fuck. What timing.]]
[[Why do we have TWO people claiming to be Townie Mailmen who are being incredibly cagey about their messages? And neither of them is the wannabe Fruit Vendor, even? What are the fucking odds of three Townie Mailmen in a single game? This is a weird fucking setup, I swear to god.]]
[[Jackie notices the ninja and is baffled by three mailmen, still voting Sind.]]
[[What the actual heck. Either we do have three mailmen in this setup which is baffling and confsing or there's some very strange scum theatre thats just unrealistic.
WHat is this.
I guess in a regular game three mailmen isn't unrealistic, since this isn't role madness? UGH
I think I might just vote for Bench honestly, so sorry buddy]]
[[Tetra is baffled and considering voting Bench.]]
[[I'm so fucking dead fucking ass y'all I am town I am mailman, y'all are making a big fucking mistake voting me out--Mailman doesn't crroborate me for SHIT, I KNOW, all I was trying to do was catch a swap or a block or some movement and I thought I was so BIG BRAINED i swear i swear. I didn't know what else to do but hand to the fucking sky I'm town, and I was keeping myself lowkey because I didn't want to say some shit and out myself.
What was cagey about my messages?? What would you like me to say, I stated what the contents of my messages were and why I wrote them lmao. Also stated why I had little to offer in the damn mailman back and forth I WAS A FUCKING MAILMAN.
I'm town. I swear to fucking god I'm town.]]
[[More Sind panicking.]]
[[What the heck???? So... wait Sind you're claiming the spam nonsense messages and not the item ones? What is going on. Oh my god the "oops all mailmen" shitpost isn't a shitpost any more.
I'm still like, really confused as to how Sind went about her play leading up to EoD today... what on earth?????]]
[[Pano is confused, still voting Sind.]]
[[Uhm okay hwhat.
Sooooo Sike was not the one sending the nonsense messages (she could've sent the item-themed ones?) and we've got two people claiming to be Townie mailmen? Honestly I think that checks out since mailmen are communicative roles, but three Townie mailmen??? Assuming the item-person is also a Townie???]]
[[Saaaaame. Okay, I feel a lot better about Sind because she and I have pretty much the same lines of thought about this whole thing (except that I decided to say nothing at all N0). If anybody wants to join me on the bandwagon for AbraPunk, feel free!]]
[[TRUTH]]
[[Starlight is confused, suggests people join her on AbraPunk instead. Coooould be opportunistic? Like, mafia offering a quick alternate train after a claim throws a wagon into chaos?]]
May scowled. "I'm not buying it. I still think the one who sent those messages was Karo. Why wouldn't you make some attempt to write something more meaningful if you were town? Unless there's something else to corroborate that, my vote's staying."
[[I remain Deeply Skeptical of this development (I was there like ohhhh my god she
is mafia can't believe everyone's buying her act when she's claiming the messages that were obviously Karo's >:(((().]]
[[YEAH I DROPPED THE BALL IDFK WHAT I'M DOING Y'ALL I DO NOT KNOW HOW TO MAILMAN.
I DIDN'T MAKE ANY ATTEMPT TO WRITE ANYTHING MEANINGFUL BECAUSE I HAD NOTHING MEANINGFUL TO WRITE OH MY GOD. WHAT SO TO TURN AROUND AND TRY TO NUDGE OR MAKE AN OBSERVATION AND GET CALLED SCUMMY FOR IT??? NAUR, WRITING NONSENSE WAS THE SAFEST BET IN MY HEAD HOLY FUCKING CHRIST]]
[[More Sind panicking.]]
[[I'd bet on the item message if Karo's a mailmen to be honest- I think Sike said they hadn't watched Mr. Rogers and item messages do feel the most 3p-ish.]]
[[DW argues with me on these being Karo's messages.]]
[[i. AM. TOWN. I CANNOT STRESS THIS ENOUGH I WILL POP A VEIN OVER IT. I psyched myself out over playing Mailman because I overestimated the importance and didn't want to get outed but that's out the goddamn window]]
[[More Sind panicking.]]
[[But Starlight did participate in the D1 discussion, even hinting that the messages were simply to let us know she existed. So like, I don't know it feels weird that all your posts were just agreeing with other people??? I'm... what even is happening rn]]
[[Pano argues about Sind's behaviour. I feel good about this post, it feels like she genuinely had this read on Sind and is frustrated by her insistence she's town.]]
[[I still trust Starlight less than Sind. Do agree with the current mailman count scum mailman is not improbable.]]
[[DW trusts Starlight less than Sind (is still voting Starlight).]]
[[This doesn't make sense why did everyone get to thinking Karo has to be TP Mailman i don't get it??? Why does it seem like people are super certain of that? Did I miss some big brained theory on why the TP is a mailman? Anyways I guess thats more relevant for tomorrow.
That said I feel like this ridiculousness tracks with how I expect Sind usually plays, trying to make big brained scum catching plays?
I never had much inkling about Sind so idk, not gonna vote there atm tbh
I am still fixated on Bench but I guess they're busy so I might not get anything. Might just have to vote them.]]
[[Tetra does not want to vote Sind and is confused by the Karo mailman theory, still wants to go Bench but hasn't done so yet.]]
[[The one who tried to message Muse with helpful info on how mailman works etc. is the one with the items. That seems more third-party to you than random nonsense?]]
[[I argue back with DW.]]
[[@Sinderella
What are all the messages you sent?]]
[[Tetra interrogates Sind about the messages. I also feel good about this one - feels like genuine interest in puzzling things out, while having missed information already given.]]
[[No extra kills suggest not SK and Free said she got mailmanish vibes from them.
[[DW explains Karo mailman theory to Tetra.]]
[[Oh whoops forgot about that.]]
[[DW concedes my point about Karo's messages.]]
[[work busy right now. Don't have time to pick vote. Just pointing out ic I die. We don't know karo was a mailman. Might find out tonight.]]
[[wind jumps in to note we don't know Karo was a mailman.]]
[[Lol thats not much at all though?
I still think odd/even day kill powers could be it, or something else but whatever]]
[[Tetra thinks Karo might have been serial killer.]]
[[But why wouldn't Sind claim her actual targets? I doubt she's lying because its super counterclaimable.]]
[[Not sure what DW is getting at here, Sind did claim which messages she sent? Guessing DW missed it?]]
[[Yeah, I don't feel good about this any more. I'm trying to work out whether triple Town Mailmen is more or less likely than Town/TP/Mafia Mailmen trio. Someone read Negrek's mind for me real quick, would ya?]]
[[To Sind: I meant your messages themselves were cagey. You and Starlight basically sent non-info, unlike our berry mailman. .]]
"I am on the edge of changing my vote for Antares," hissed Lurosa, fur thoroughly on end. "The one player I have no reason to believe is Town!"
[[Jackie says they don't feel good about the Sind vote and might switch to AbraPunk.]]
[[Well hey can't we justhave Sind send us a message to prove they're a mailman tonight?]]
[[Tetra suggests Sind prove she's a mailman tonight.]]
[[Doc would still have to get a right protect on one of the nights, which not impossible but less probable then different 3p in my opinion. Not nessecarily mailman but its possible.]]]
[[DW argues against Karo serial killer theory.]]
[[LIKE I SAID I HAVE NEVER PLAYED MAILMAN BEFORE AND I DIDN'T KNOW WHO TO TRUST SO IT FELT SAFER TO SEND NONSENSE TO PEOPLE I FELT MIGHT BE TARGETS FOR SWAPS OR BLOCKS AND WENT FROM THERE, THAT WAS MY LOGIC]]
[[Sind defends sending nonsense.]]
[[Karo was around for two nights, so odd/even serial killer doesn't explain it! It'd have to involve a lucky doctor etc. on the night he was active.]]
[[I also argue against Karo serial killer theory.]]
[[Okay, fuck it. Both Starlight and Sind can prove they're not killing people by sending messages instead of killing people, yes? Odds are good their messages will get through. So fuck this.]]
"I vote for Antares," moaned Lurosa, gem flickering and fading.
[[Jackie switches to AbraPunk, on the basis we can make the mailmen send mail tonight (consistent with previous reasoning).]]
[[Not carrying out the kill doesn't mean town
[[DW argues with Jackie.]]
[[Money in mouth time?
vote: IFBench
i dont KNOW sorry Bench]]
[[Tetra votes Bench.]]
[[FFS, can these games stop blowing up when I'm pre-occupied with school?
This is a bandwagon, and if Sind wasn't blowing up a storm, I am expecting this vote to be going over quietly. Dead air, dead townie. Sind's behaviour here also pings a meta-tell for me, which is the sheer panic of a Townie being voted out.
Given the wagon-y nature of this vote, I'm inclined to believe that there is at least one scum player on this train, and again, my immediate inclination is Virgil due his very "nuh-uh" nature of his vote.
Not much more time left to talk, fuck.]]
[[Inke finds Virgil's vote suspect.]]
[[Hrmmm, mafia Sind on a team that has a mailman could still just... have the mailman send "Hey I'm Sind".]]
[[I suggest Sind could be on a mafia team with a mailman.]]
[[Fuck, she could just draft a message for her buddy, couldn't she? Goddamnit.]]
[[Jackie seems persuaded by this.]]
[[okay but then why do you think having her send mail is an adequate substitute for getting her flip]]
[[I respond to Jackie/DW spat; I didn't recall Jackie's previous reasoning about going for more important mafia roles first so I didn't quite connect what they were going for.]]
[[Jackie swaps last-minute.]]
[[I think my overall takeaways are...
- While Chibi has been very vague, that's kind of how they like to play, so I'm disinclined to scumread it. It's
possible Chibi started a train on Dorien
knowing I was likely to jump on afterward, since I had suspected Sind on D1, but I found their observations about Sind organic and reasonable.
- I know I voted Sind because I agreed with Chibi and was already tunneling a bit.
- Pano's vote is well positioned to be mafia but thanks to the summaryposting I think it's basically impossible she actually jumped on the wagon because it was a townie wagon with two votes. It's theoretically possible she was mafia who just coincidentally found Sind the best target to go for based on the summaryposting she was doing, but also I think she had a very authentic reaction in the middle of the EoD chaos that makes me townread her more after this.
- Virgil's vote is also well positioned to be mafia, with the suspicion on Sind in particular materializing there conveniently, and it's also pinging me lightly that he makes a point of saying he's been thinking that since this morning, though of course nothing says that
can't be genuine.
- Jackie's vote is probably the second most suspect to me, but ehhhh. They did have a progression based on self-consistent reasoning, and other aspects of their play have felt towny to me. I can see a mafia motive for swapping and then swapping back late, but not inclined to go there at the moment.
I'll go
Vote: Kichiro (Virgil134) for now.]]