[Town victory] Vanilla Mafia!

[HelloYellow17]

[[How likely IS it that we’d have two sets though?? Considering this is a vanilla game??]]

 

[Dragonfree]

[[Honestly, I feel like she was just trying to dig into somebody to seem like she was useful, so you’d all start to back her because she was making galaxy brained connections, so as soon as everyone started believing my claim was true, she could cry lover and have everyone turn back on me and sac me.

Playing aggressive for apparent credibility. That’s my take.]]

[[Do you have reason to believe there aren't two sets of lovers?]]

 

[HelloYellow17]

[[Genuinely confused and idk why people are thinking two sets of lovers is more likely than Sind being scum. Happy to hear any explanation why the former would be more believable than the latter.]]

 

[Sinderella]

[[Do you have reason to believe there aren't two sets of lovers?]]

[[I know of one set, that’s it.]]

 

[Flyg0n]

[[most likely there aren't 2 and sind refusing to acknowledge the possibility is... Odd]]

 

[Sinderella]

[[most likely there aren't 2 and sind refusing to acknowledge the possibility is... Odd]]

[[I never acknowledged that there couldn’t be two, I just said I only know one.]]

 

[Dragonfree]

[[Genuinely confused and idk why people are thinking two sets of lovers is more likely than Sind being scum. Happy to hear any explanation why the former would be more believable than the latter.]]

[[Because the mafia would have known that vanilla players got a hint, but when initially claiming vanilla, Sinderella clearly wasn't aware of this. Either that or she galaxy brained hard enough to make an intentionally faulty vanilla claim. I don't believe that.]]

 

[Flyg0n]

[[No, because Tetra is full on lying. She was tunneling me to make herself seem useful, and now that you guys are more inclined to believe her, she’s crying lover. Keeping lighter, because I’m right!]]

[[I don't need to defend my logic to you, I think my actions have been extremely clear]]

Nope nope NOPE Tetra tunneled on Mike right from the beginning and for good reason because she knew his SK claim was BS from the start. Also she refused to change her mind even after everyone begged her not to and after I changed my mind (I’m sorry Tetra for doubting you) and you’ve had inconsistencies ALL DAY even though everyone else was trying to brush them off, I love you very much but you’re a heckin LIAR ;D

Also fine, keep the lighter and be a thief and a liar, Wes won’t forget this xD]]

[[Bless yellow, thank you. Hana will remember this]]

IS there any reason there can't be two sets of lovers? Wouldn't that explain everything? Why can't Clovis be in one set and Kent be in the other set?

[[maybe. Not sold on this but I have been saying it's possible.]]

 

[HelloYellow17]

[[Gonna say it right now, if there are two sets then...well, town is screwed. Since I don’t think there would be any mafia lovers (unless there’s a town/mafia pair? But again, that contradict what Namo said about there being more than one non-standard way to win so that’s pretty much not possible. So there’s either a mafia pair (unlikely, given the other mafia roles that exist and there’s not likely to be more than 6 total) or there’s a second town pair, which, if that’s the case, is very very bad for town in this situation.

What makes the most sense to my not-good-at-mafia brain right now is that there’s only one pair and Clovis is scum.]]

 

[HelloYellow17]

[[Because the mafia would have known that vanilla players got a hint, but when initially claiming vanilla, Sinderella clearly wasn't aware of this. Either that or she galaxy brained hard enough to make an intentionally faulty vanilla claim. I don't believe that.]]

[[is it too big of a stretch to say that maybe the mafia overlooked this and it was a genuine mistake? Yeah, that’s several people missing out on that, but it was a small detail that nobody really acknowledged until Phan brought it up point-blank. The mafia isn’t infallible.]]

 

[windskull]

[[unless there's six Mafia I don't think there's mafia lovers and I'm doubtful there's two sets of town lovers]]

 

[windskull]

[[*but I doubt

 

[Shiny Phantump]

[[So, looks like our best guess is that we have two pairs of town lovers, which, for the bloody record, is very different than having mafia lovers which I maintain is still impossible unless Fusion’s hint is a lie, and even then still unlikely. I will continue to not entertain Mafia Lover crap. If any of you keep tunneling Clovis you’re going straight onto my sketchy list. (Gonna write that shortly I swear.)

VOTE: ABSTAIN]]

 

[HelloYellow17]

Because the mafia would have known that vanilla players got a hint,

[[Would they?? Nowhere in the signup post does it say that vanilla players will get a hint. It has only said so in DMs to the vanilla players. Do you have any proof that the mafia knew about this info?

After looking over the signup post and finding no info about the villagers getting hints, I’m keeping my vote as-is. I think Sind’s vanilla with no hint claim was a mafia fumble, and several people are desperately trying to cover that up with a two-pair-lovers claim. I’m not buying it.]]

 

[HelloYellow17]

[[So, looks like our best guess is that we have two pairs of town lovers, which, for the bloody record, is very different than having mafia lovers which I maintain is still impossible unless Fusion’s hint is a lie, and even then still unlikely. I will continue to not entertain Mafia Lover crap. If any of you keep tunneling Clovis you’re going straight onto my sketchy list. (Gonna write that shortly I swear.)

VOTE: ABSTAIN]]

[[Why though? Why is two pairs of lovers more likely than Clovis being scum? I agree that there’s probably no way there’s mafia lovers or a mafia/town pair, but I just. I dunno. I’m reaaally skeptical of there being two Town pairs. If I end up being wrong, I give my full permission for everyone to scream at Wes lol.]]

 

[Dragonfree]

[[Would they?? Nowhere in the signup post does it say that vanilla players will get a hint. It has only said so in DMs to the vanilla players. Do you have any proof that the mafia knew about this info?

After looking over the signup post and finding no info about the villagers getting hints, I’m keeping my vote as-is. I think Sind’s vanilla with no hint claim was a mafia fumble, and several people are desperately trying to cover that up with a two-pair-lovers claim. I’m not buying it.]]

[[Of course they knew, because the mafia contains vanilla goons, who were explicitly also told this in their role PMs. We've already established this.]]

 

[unrepentantAuthor]

[[First some quickfire ooc comments. This took way too much of my day so eventually I had to give up reponding to everything...]]

[[Here goes...]]

Mike probably isn’t mafia because the strategy doesn’t check out agh. Buuuut does anybody think it’s possible he’s the SK?

[[He would be the worst SK player in history if this was his gambit, and he's obviously smarter than that.]]

"Have we looked at who died on the first night, and who was talking to them on the zero-th day?"

"If someone--- anyone, really, had a poor interaction with KTLA-5 or the Ferryman, then they'd be inclined to either kill them or throw their Mafia vote at them.

"And the Porygon twins were besties," Mike pointed to the rolling emotional wreck, "which would be a superb shield for them to hide behind. Imagine, you set up this great friendship, and then get handed the opportunity to Force Stop their program?"

[[But not that smart, or he wouldn't keep making plays like this! Seems like nonsense to me. If the other pory stuck around, Mafia/SK!Poryfriend could use them as an emotional shield all game. I understand why Homestar plays like this, though. He gives me a pretty strong 'newbie player trying to galaxy brain' read.]]

F-Four? This setup typically maxes at 2 kills per night, only hitting 3 when Lovers go down.

[[Whoever said four death was counting the mislynch they thought we were running into, of course.]]

Ebony [Houndoom] (Chibi Pika)

• WEAK TAKE: Sus Mafia/SK, due to heavy RP with Ferry on Day 0

Kent [Dracomon] (AbraPunk)

• WEAK TAKE: Sus Mafia/SK. Took a *long* time to reply after gambit, possibly feining lovers.

Porygon [Porygon?] (Bluwiikoon)

• MEDIUM TAKE: Sus SK, setting up tragedy in Day 0 to hide behind

Reme [Gardevoir] (Fusion)

• STRONG TAKE: No idea, but fren :3

Steven Stone [Steven Stone] (Panoramic_Vacuum)

• Spectator? Do we know who all spectators are?]]

[[Oh no... These are dreadful! We don't even have spectators participating, what are you talking about?]]

[[Stop conflating rp flavor with actual reads.]]

[[Also I don't think purely activity based reads are helpful. (Different from timing of posts and/or 100% inactivity). We're all busy to varying degrees.

[[Seconding this. People have school, jobs, partners, health, other hobbies. And while Mike's reasoning doesn't imply a Day Zero agenda, it is a decidedly flimsy argument that disincentivises any RP.]]

Kent just stared at the human for a long time. "Do you realize how stupid you sound right now? We just had this other guy," He motioned to Steven, "say that, among other things, he believes that I am innocent, which I am, and then you come in, and you're saying otherwise. That's pretty suspicious, if you ask me."

[[steven doesn't have any credibility yet! he's a silent player who just turned up and made no other hard claims. it's not sus to disagree with him.]]

Let me try to break down some fact statements:

-Homestar so far, claims bulletproof, previously claimed townrolecop. Both roles we'd theoretically want to protect, but also might just be dumb moves
-Abra was accused of being the serial killer by Homestar, who claimed rolecop.
-Sind claims to know the identity of lovers. However she never stepped forward to confirm that Homestar was telling the truth about Abra's SK thing. (Whatever the reasons are this is a statement of fact.)
--{If she knew why not say something and corrborate?}
-Sind seemed at first, completely unaware of the stipulant that all vanilla members should know a secret, a fact now corraborated by Diyem.
-Abra is uncomfirmed. Some sussed him as lover, others as critical roles, others as vanilla, no concrete's so far, but many think he's safe.
-Wes claims vanilla
-Homestar tried to loop around and once again galaxy brain accuse poryfriend of something in the exact same manner he previously did.

So far my suspicion remains still Homestar, but then on Sind, Bartholomew and Pixie

[[we don't need to protect bulletproof, they're immune to nightkills.
sind's actions are explainable several ways, my favourite of which right now is that she's a lover
nobody is ever confirmed or unconfirmed until they're sacrificed tbh]]

"If those words weren't just the most poorly disguised threat I've ever heard--" Kent shook his head.

"Yeah, I think the natural thing to do here is to get rid of you, pretty boy."

(Unvote: Homestar)
Vote: Clovis

[[sind's 'you'll regret it' just sounds like the kind of thing a townie lover would say though. tetra is now saying exactly that sort of thing while claiming lover.]]

[[I present my final thoughts for the night:

Option 1: Sind is 100% truthfull and Abra is dangerous and not lover (dangerous to who? Mafia???)
Option 2: Sind is lying and trying to make us lynch the lover by claiming they know who is the lover
Option 3: Sind wants us to kill someone innocent because they know who is innocent somehow.

[[My vote remains on Clovis/Sind]]

[[If Sind knows the lovers don't include Abra, then that means Abra lied, which means they're sus. They could be Mafia, for instance.
If Sind doesn't know who the lovers are, and we sacrifice Abra and lose their lover, we'll immediately just turn on Sind. If Sind is Mafia, they wouldn't make this play.
It's also possible that Sind is an innocent, knows who the lovers are, and that Abra is somehow innocent. That's just unfortunate.
Anyway we don't actually have to sacrifice either of them.]]

So I uhhh

Completely blanked on this
It blew up faster than I could keep up with and I can barely even follow the logic trail at this point because there was A Lot
As I've seen this I haven't really caught up yet, so... I'm gonna do that tonight. I hope.

[[seems valid. Espy's had this happen like two or three times before. She isn't sus for not posting. but she doesn't get a townread either.]]

[[Also according to you why would anyone claim lover??? I am not following this reasoning in the slightest, there's not enough evidence.]]

[[Nobody should claim lover, it's a mistake. About the only reason to do so would be to make town unwilling to sacrifice you (but you'd just get nightkilled immediately then unless you got protection) or because you're scum pretending to be doing that (in which case you'd be super sus when you don't die overnight).]]

[[If Abra does not get Sacrificed, but survives the night, that's some pretty open-and-shut evidence that they are scum.]]

[[Homestar's reasoning here is fairly sound, actually. And his behaviour so far tracks with newbie bulletproof. I think he's been honest since he revealed his gambit. And he's right about us only getting one bulletproof.]]

"There's two lover pairs. Kent's town and there's a mafia lover pair."

[[I think I see your point? But I also think you're assuming people here are uh.... more experienced than they are, and would know not to knot themselves up. Dumb plays can be made. have been. Even Mafia can mess up if they don't know what they're doing, right?]]

[[There's more likely to be two town lover pairs than a Mafia one, honestly. Never heard of scum/scum lovers, it doesn't feel like a vanilla thing at all. It would also be a really serious nerf to the scum. And Mafia get 24 hours to discuss among themselves, so they mess up less in general. The SK should stay as quiet as they can get away with, but a newbie SK might just as well chew the scenery. I think it's more likely than not that the SK is one of our quieter players, though.]]

[[Also there's SO MANY FUCKING POSTS i'm gonna lose my mind]]

[[IC post coming soon i hope]]

 

[HelloYellow17]

[[Of course they knew, because the mafia contains vanilla goons, who were explicitly also told this in their role PMs. We've already established this.]]

[[Hm I forgot that goons would also receive hints...but we also don’t know if there are any goons in this game...but this does change things a little bit. Will think about this.]]

 

[Inkedust]

[[Ebony specified earlier that if there are no goons, the Town Role-Cop would serve the same functionality as the Cop, with is both overpowered and redundant.

Will write up thoughts on this debacle soon, but I do think we should give the idea of there being two sets of lovers more weight. Also echoing Phan's earlier statement that being doubtful of the presence Mafia Lovers is different from being doubtful of there being two sets.]]

 

[HelloYellow17]

[[Freaking—ugh I don’t know anymore. It’s true that Clovis claiming lovers would be a bad mafia play, because it would be way too easy to disprove with a mislynch and then everyone would turn on him the next day. So...maybe I jumped the gun (again.) If Clovis really is part of another pair, then that...really sucks, tbh. Idk, for a vanilla game it feels weird to throw in two pairs since that seems unusual even in more advanced games, from what I understand? Would have been helpful to have at least given a hint that two pairs existed regardless of alignment. But that’s neither here nor there at this point.

Not ready to change my vote just yet, but I highly recommend we vote for at least someone today. Since, if we do have two pairs and the SK is alive and well, then we’re very likely to have four deaths in the night. Town needs a win, and tbh we have a few players who I think are sus enough to warrant at least a few votes, maybe. I think it’s too risky to abstain now that we (potentially) have so much to lose.]]