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Fall 2020 Mafia - Game Thread

DawningWinds

Ace Trainer
Partners
  1. hawlucha
Equitia, who'd you target night 1? What results did you get?

So... What now?
We scumhunt, of course.

Speaking of which, I kinda want to vote you. So I'm going to, at least for now. Yesterday I had you as lime but looking over the thread last night, I noticed that you said you were just going with the majority, no independent decision-making. Easy way to avoid being suspected.
Vote: Shiny Phantump
 

Persephone

Infinite Screms
Pronouns
her/hers
Partners
  1. mawile
  2. vulpix-alola
[[ "At least everyone lived." Except, of course, for the person he'd helped kill. The innocent person he'd helped kill. And there was still no proof that there even were evil spirits possessing the living. It was entirely possible that their hosts were just playing a sick game with their guests, seeing if they would kill each other over nothing.

It was a solid bet that they would.]]

@SparklingEspeon @Waffle What did you do / find the last two nights?

Well... things could have gone worse? Windskull's claim strongly suggests that there is a roleblocker, probably on the scum side. Unless it is the sort of ability that could fail without being blocked? Not entirely sure what sort of form that would take. If scum does have a roleblocker, then a two-mafia team would have the killer / role block. That's not super powerful for starting with an 8-2 disadvantage in a power role heavy game. I'm inclined to think that either mafia have a collective kill and individual roles or that there are three. Which puts us in a much worse position now, 6-3.

I will admit that I was part of a miskill we couldn't afford yesterday. I wanted some information to go off of, and there was no other way to get it than going after Del. But that does put me further in the sus hole. Not exactly willing to claim rn since it would make my role much less effective.

General thoughts:

Fusion: Two of the three people who voted for the miskill had also been voting for Fusion earlier in the day. That's possibly just coincidence, but it's pushing me to a strong town lean.

Tanuki: In hindsight, they weren't wrong. I'm a bit nervous that 2/3 of the killer trinity are certain they're clear but... I can absolutely understand their reasoning tbh. The awkward claim and sound logic on not daykilling lead me to a strong town lean.

Shiny Phantump: I have no strong thoughts. They didn't contribute a whole lot yesterday, so I guess I'd like to hear more today. A decent-enough candidate for suspicion at this time, but still a neutral read.

Windskull: If Eq's logic is right (tbh I've played one other game in the last ten years, I wouldn't know), they're pretty much cleared by virtue of being roleblocked N1. Very strong town read.

DawningWinds: I've read through all their posts again and they generally seem sincere and helpful. Some lean a little into content without contributing, sure, but nothing abnormal. It's only being part of the kill vote that makes me a little sus and, well, if I had good intentions, it's possible they did as well.

Equitia: If they're mafia we're screwed lol. For better or worse they've been driving the game's flow so far. And I think that their logic is generally sound? Maybe info roles should keep an eye in that direction, but until someone can report strong evidence that they're scum I'm inclined to accept that they're helpful. If only so the game can keep moving.

Persephone: Ah, well, it does objectively look like I'm the scummiest, I suppose. I had my reasons. RNG addiction and thinking in terms of a larger game for my disastrous first post, following more experienced players after that.

I'm gonna cast a vote for Shiny Phantump for now. Just to get more of their thoughts on everything. If anyone has specific questions for me or things they'd like justified, I can answer them either in the next two hours or in the morning when I wake up.
 

Tanuki

Friend of All Chu
Location
Rhyme City
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He/him/his
OOC: Dropping in to say I have a test tonight. I won’t be able to contribute until after, but I want to look into the flavor text Del wrote. Heads up, I’m not caught up, I don’t know who’s still alive (besides Enigma), I just wanted to look at this out the gate. It might be nothing, but if it seems like some people are working as a unit, it’s worth looking into.

I skimmed when I read back, but the only point I found where a number of people suddenly switched off me was after either I laid off on my no-lynch talk (look how well that turned out), or when Wind brought up my, uh... anti-role claim?

From my shoddy memory, the only people that voted me were Perse, Equita, and Dawning. I don’t see the connection, though, because they all voted/unvoted me for different reasons. Dawning just wanted to see my reaction, then I think Equita and Perse just read me as scum until Wind pointed out my blunder.

I really don’t see the connection. My best guess is Del had an info role and did their best to say in the flavor text what they didn’t bring up in the day. Even still, I don’t know what they could’ve seen or what info role would’ve cast suspicion on me.

If there’s something to crack here, we might be able to bust the mafia wide open. Obviously, I was the main suspect, so I’m probably blind to a lot.

Del was innocent. We know they were trying to help. I need help deciphering what they said.
 

Fusion

Oh knee on
Location
Here, silly
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Him/His
Partners
  1. zoroark
I won't make any big brain decisions until more people post in the thread, so Imma be quiet for now.
It's totally not because I'm feeling mighty grey. Who has emotions irl that dictate what they do, amiright?

I would like know what Wind's ability thingy is, but that's probably not that important. Chances are I won't be on as much tomorrow, cuz work, so I sure hope I don't suddenly get put under the sus lamp then. Rn, the only people that I would have my eyes on are the ones that voted the townie kill, but they've given good enough reasons for me to wave that off. If I don't respond again, assume I went to bed.
 

Shiny Phantump

Through Dream, I Travel
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Hallownest
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She/Her
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  1. sylveon
  2. absol-mega
  3. silvally-psychic
  4. ninetales-phantump
  5. cosmog
  6. gallade-phantump
  7. ceruledge-phantump
When several people voted skip right away, I followed because of course I did. Why on earth would I see two players open with skip, then decide to, having never played Mafia before, declare that I actually wanted to kill someone.

In the end, I didn’t vote with the majority of (non-me) people. The majority chose Del, but I though the reasons for doing so were flimsy, so I chose to continue voting skip, tying the vote. Unfortunately, the 50/50 didn’t go my way, and y’all did end up killing an innocent person.

As for today, I don’t have the faintest clue what happened. I’m not even sure if Equital is claiming to have witnessed Wind get blocker, or if he claims to have gotten blocked himself. The only thing I get that I shouldn’t be telling people what my role is yet, and that Wind and Equital are probably innocent.

Yes, I am partially basing my decisions off other people. I’m not going to invent my own playstyle on the first night of the first game.
 

Equitial

Ace Trainer
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he/him
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  1. espurr
  2. inkay
  3. woobat
  4. ralts
Equitia, who'd you target night 1? What results did you get?

Welp, I targeted SparklingEspeon. I got "no result", and I know she has irl stuff, so yeah -- her story is good. (Wish I could have reported before she chimed in.)

But first, are we sure we want Waffle to roleclaim completely? Honestly, I'm tired right now and not able to get much out. @Waffle, maybe don't roleclaim.
 

DawningWinds

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  1. hawlucha
Dawning just wanted to see my reaction,
Didn't even. Just joking around. :P

OOC: I just want to point out I'm actually not an experienced player, having only played one game and getting night-killed the first night (and my guess in that game WAS actually at a mafia member, and I'd been picked off out of suspicion of having an info-role since it was day 1. It was nothing more than a blind guess. Infinite did not have an info-role, but he did have a role. Hence where my theory is coming from here.)
So sorry for my mistake! If I'd known I probably would've still corrected you, but probably wouldn't have considered it suspicious.

And given Enigma is now being hounded, I have increased suspicions concerning Persephone and Equita, who had been backing each other, and are now defending Tanuki... DW, I have no idea about atm. But on this basis, I am now believing there are three mafia members among us.
I'm interested in her Persephone/Equitia/Tanuki suspicions, but I didn't get the chance to look into them specifically, so I'll be taking a look at that later. They do feel mildly OMGUS-y, though.
 

Equitial

Ace Trainer
Pronouns
he/him
Partners
  1. espurr
  2. inkay
  3. woobat
  4. ralts
Tired, but thoughts. Have them now.

A townie roleblocker probably would've held off night zero, not wanting to blocking a useful information role, especially since there was no nightkill that they had a chance of blocking.

Consider that we have new players, so it might not occur to them. But still, yeah -- I didn't even think of that. You could very well be right.

Anyway, you've played more games than me. Was I right that it's unlikely to have a townie roleblocker in this game in particular? I was really worried about that and I don't know how accurate I was being.

When several people voted skip right away, I followed because of course I did. Why on earth would I see two players open with skip, then decide to, having never played Mafia before, declare that I actually wanted to kill someone.

Phantump is new, and them following the crowd is expected for that reason. @DawningWinds, I think you have an issue where you expect people to have as much Mafia experience under your belt as you do, and therefore you get a lot of false positive scumreads. It happened with Del. You need to keep in mind that I think you're the only one here who's played more than two full games in their life. You're surrounded by noobs.

I’m not even sure if Equital is claiming to have witnessed Wind get blocker, or if he claims to have gotten blocked himself.

I witnessed Wind getting blocked.

The awkward claim and sound logic on not daykilling lead me to a strong town lean.

Tanuki's logic was flimsy -- he even admitted as such. Awkward claim though yes.

Two of the three people who voted for the miskill had also been voting for Fusion earlier in the day. That's possibly just coincidence, but it's pushing me to a strong town lean.

Those two people were me and DawningWinds. For the record, I only voted for Fusion to see what would happened; I never really suspected him. Anyway, I'm innocent, so I don't think that coincidence gives him a town claim.

Equitia: If they're mafia we're screwed lol. For better or worse they've been driving the game's flow so far. And I think that their logic is generally sound? Maybe info roles should keep an eye in that direction, but until someone can report strong evidence that they're scum I'm inclined to accept that they're helpful. If only so the game can keep moving.

I'm confused. You gave WIndskull a "strong town read"; I may be reading this wrong, but now you're kind of casting shade on me even though my roleclaim cleared Wind?? Idk, I don't like your logic and I can't tell if it's bc you're scum or just because.

Btw, you also mentioned "following the experienced players" last night and let me say I have absolutely no idea what I'm doing lol. This is my third game. My second was the previous TR one, and the first I did when I was like 13 and I got lynched first day (was mafia). I'm taking an aggro stance but I assure you I am flailing. Whatever you do, do not follow me blindly lmfao

Scumreads! (don't have any strong ones lol I'm scered)

Persephone -- Don't like logic but I don't think it's in an anti-town way? idk

Fusion -- Idk I was more certain they were innocent yesterday but now I'm changing my mind dunno why

Phantump -- Idk

DawningWind -- I'm just scared at the idea of mafia!DawningWind because they actually know how mafia works. I almost want to vote for them to level the playing field. Eh. They did vote for Del. DawningWind

On the bright side, I think we can safely assume myself, Windskull, Tanuki, and SparklingEspeon are innocent! Well, Espy could be mafia, but with the roleblocker theory then she's the third who isn't doing anything.

I'd like to hear from Waffle.

I get a little loopy when I'm sleepy, sorry.
 

Persephone

Infinite Screms
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her/hers
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  1. mawile
  2. vulpix-alola
Btw, you also mentioned "following the experienced players" last night and let me say I have absolutely no idea what I'm doing lol.

...well, shoot.

Huh. I guess I did assume that you were town when I took your word on windskull.

@Tanuki I'm almost certain that the flavor text just referred to DA's vote on you, and not a final message that Starlight allowed them to send from beyond the grave.

@Shiny Phantump Can you list off your thoughts on everyone?
 

DawningWinds

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  1. hawlucha
@DawningWinds, I think you have an issue where you expect people to have as much Mafia experience under your belt as you do, and therefore you get a lot of false positive scumreads. It happened with Del. You need to keep in mind that I think you're the only one here who's played more than two full games in their life. You're surrounded by noobs.
Oh. I'm always considered a new player back on Bulba (as little sense that makes for someone who's played 10+ games), so I guess I'm just to only have a couple of players who've played less than me? Most of players I play with most games have been playing for years.

Consider that we have new players, so it might not occur to them. But still, yeah -- I didn't even think of that. You could very well be right.

Anyway, you've played more games than me. Was I right that it's unlikely to have a townie roleblocker in this game in particular? I was really worried about that and I don't know how accurate I was being.
It's hard to say. I don't have any other games hosted by Star to compare, so I'm using Negrek's games because they seem pretty similar overall. Negrek's last game had a the same manipulation role reused by both town and Mafia, so I can see that happening here, but I don't know enough about exactly what other roles there are to know whether it'd fit into the balance or not.

On the bright side, I think we can safely assume myself, Windskull, Tanuki, and SparklingEspeon are innocent! Well, Espy could be mafia, but with the roleblocker theory then she's the third who isn't doing anything.
If Espy is Mafia, she's probably got a passive role- Mafia members can submit actions for each other quite a bit of the time. Even if Mafia are inexperienced, Star would probably let them know that they coild so that they could make full use of their night actions.

DawningWind -- I'm just scared at the idea of mafia!DawningWind because they actually know how mafia works. I almost want to vote for them to level the playing field. Eh. They did vote for Del. DawningWind
I'd defend myself, but honestly I don't think there's anything to defend myself from. This feels like paranoia, which I understand, been there done that. I generally see it from town. It's plural, though.

But please don't actually lynch me out of pure paranoia.

Persephone -- Don't like logic but I don't think it's in an anti-town way? idk
I know you said you don't have an strong scumreads, but if you don't think it's in an anti-town way, you shouldn't be listing her as a scum read.

Fusion -- Idk I was more certain they were innocent yesterday but now I'm changing my mind dunno why

Phantump -- Idk
Can you try to explain these scumreads a bit better? Gut reads are gut reads, but I'd like you to try to give the better explanation if you can.
 

windskull

Bidoof Fan
Staff
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  1. sneasel-nip
  2. bidoof
  3. absol
  4. kirlia
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  8. mawile
  9. manectric
It's getting late so I'll give more thoughts tomorrow but there's two things that I want to leave for people to think on.

Throughout all four posts, Del was quite adamant about Tanuki. Could just be that she was suspicious of his motivations. Or she could have been a cop. This seems unlikely since it would have been better to reveal that before EoD. Even if she was a cop, Tanuki could still have been swapped with someone. I'm probably overthinking this. But with whatever shenanigans kept the mafia from making their kill tonight, I felt like it was a theory worth humoring.

As for those who actually targeted Del... I'd think there's a decent chance that at least one of them was Mafia. Probably just one, but I could be wrong. Equita is more or less cleared in my eyes. The only scenario I can think of where she'd be able to safely make her claim and also be Mafia is if the mafia has a rolecop and a roleblocker. Otherwise, any single part of her story could easily be poked at. (Or we're both mafia, but unless we had a third member laying low, that would be very poor decision making)

That leaves DawningWinds and Persephone. Of the two, I feel like the more likely mafia is Persephone based on previous games. DawningWinds could be Mafia, but her playstyle feels extremely similar to the previous game, which makes me less suspicious of her. Persephone I could swing either way. IDK, I'll give thoughts about more players overall tomorrow.
 

DawningWinds

Ace Trainer
Partners
  1. hawlucha
As for those who actually targeted Del... I'd think there's a decent chance that at least one of them was Mafia. Probably just one, but I could be wrong.
I'm actually going to agree with this, statistically speaking, anyway. In nearly every game I've been in with a D1 mislynch, there's been exactly one scum on the wagon that lead to said mislynch. It's actually kind of surprising how consistent that is. (Every game I've been in with a scum lynch D1 had had a lot of bussing involved.) I'll be taking a close look at Persephone and Equitia's posts in the morning or afternoon (it's past 1:00 AM for me) to see if I feel like either of them had scum moitivation behind their votes on Del, or anywhere really, just because not every game is the same and if I end up really feeling like they're both town, I'm going to not vote either of them.

For now I think I'll leave my vote where it is and try to go to bed.
 

Equitial

Ace Trainer
Pronouns
he/him
Partners
  1. espurr
  2. inkay
  3. woobat
  4. ralts
But please don't actually lynch me out of pure paranoia.
Can you try to explain these scumreads a bit better? Gut reads are gut reads, but I'd like you to try to give the better explanation if you can.

...Yeah, sorry, I was just tired last night and probably shouldn't have posted at all. Unvote: DawningWinds. I'll be back later today to actually give some useful reads.

Equita is more or less cleared in my eyes. The only scenario I can think of where she'd be able to safely make her claim and also be Mafia is if the mafia has a rolecop and a roleblocker. Otherwise, any single part of her story could easily be poked at. (Or we're both mafia, but unless we had a third member laying low, that would be very poor decision making)

I'm a man who uses he/him :/

In nearly every game I've been in with a D1 mislynch, there's been exactly one scum on the wagon that lead to said mislynch.

Okay, you and Windskull (whom I say is innocent) agree, so this is probably a good line to pursue. Toward EoD, there were three votes on abstain, two on Del, and two on Waffle before Persephone switched from Waffle to Del at relatively last minute. People were settling down, so this switch was the only thing that allowed someone to be lynched. Persephone made it a tie.

Based on everything, DawningWinds' motivations for lynching Del seem in-character for them. They'd always been pro-lynch, and they went Del on the assumption she was showing a common mafia tell (though that tell turned out to be caused by inexperience). Perse was Mafia last game so it's harder to tell her views. However, I think I see her flip-flopping around with her reasoning for lynching people. I want to actually re-read the thread, but for now, Persephone.
 

Persephone

Infinite Screms
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her/hers
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  1. mawile
  2. vulpix-alola
Oh boy. The two players who keep voting in sync, first on Fusion, then Del, and now me, insist that the person they swayed is the scum. Am I inconsistent? Yeah, but I thought at the time I changed my mind that it was justified.

-I initially embraced dumb RNG shit in part because it would allow situations like this, where an innocent was killed by plurality and info roles could narrow the scope of their search.

-Nevermind, that also allows the mafia to force a daykill and, in a game that might have a small margin of error, that’s not ideal. Alternatively, if a mafia member is killed than they have a decent shit at picking off info roles in the night.

-Tanuki because they made one post and entered radio silence

-Heh. Well, they sort of cleared their name on accident. Inactives? Last game scum lurked a lot at the edges of the game, seldom getting into the thick of the discussion. As that’s my only mafia game in a decade+, that’s good perspective.

-Oh right someone cast a vote for Waffle already. I can double down there.

-Final, fatal vote: Eq seemed to know what they were doing. Most of the game’s experienced players (or the players I thought were experienced) were voting kill. There was only one vote I could cast that would make that an option, so I did.
 

Equitial

Ace Trainer
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he/him
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  1. espurr
  2. inkay
  3. woobat
  4. ralts
I haven't re-read the thread yet, but response.

The two players who keep voting in sync, first on Fusion, then Del, and now me, insist that the person they swayed is the scum.

You keep implying I'm scummy without going right out and saying it. You accuse DawningWinds (who has a soft vote), but here was a previous read:

DawningWinds: I've read through all their posts again and they generally seem sincere and helpful. Some lean a little into content without contributing, sure, but nothing abnormal. It's only being part of the kill vote that makes me a little sus and, well, if I had good intentions, it's possible they did as well.

More generous than your read towards me. Your read on Windskull was a lot more generous than the one towards me, and 1) Windskull was only cleared by my roleclaim and 2) they're voting for you too! What are you doing here? Do you not want to go after Windskull because they'll be cleared if I'm lynched and inevitably flip innocent? Am I completely off track and they're your scummate? Tbh, I think I have the biggest claim to innocence right now, so why do you keep going after me?

-Nevermind, that also allows the mafia to force a daykill and, in a game that might have a small margin of error, that’s not ideal. Alternatively, if a mafia member is killed than they have a decent shit at picking off info roles in the night.

So, town loses out if we lynch an innocent for obvious reasons. But also, town loses out if we get a scumkill because then the scum is more likely to avoid info roles??? Why'd you vote at all, then?

-Heh. Well, they sort of cleared their name on accident. Inactives? Last game scum lurked a lot at the edges of the game, seldom getting into the thick of the discussion. As that’s my only mafia game in a decade+, that’s good perspective.

1. This logic should also clear me because I'm sure as hell not sticking to the edges like I did last game. 2. You're right that we should be suspicious of players who are just lurking. @Shiny Phantump and @Fusion, I know you're new, but you have to give thoughts. It doesn't matter if they're great or not, give them. Or else we have to turn our eyes on you.

-Oh right someone cast a vote for Waffle already. I can double down there.

No? You and Windskull were the only ones to vote for Waffle; Phantump considered it and Fusion jokingly mentioned it, but you were the tiebreaker. I did tell you to switch from Espeon to Waffle, so that's a point in your favor maybe? It doesn't change things much.
 

Equitial

Ace Trainer
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he/him
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  1. espurr
  2. inkay
  3. woobat
  4. ralts
Tbh, for Persphone I think the only reason right now why I would not want to go for her is that she soft roleclaimed and I should be able to check her out. Except whoops, roleblocker. I get the same results for a passive/no role and if I'm roleblocked, so if we don't hit scum today I have no way to be sure if I'm getting accurate reads. Kind of wish I'd thought of that before.
 

Shiny Phantump

Through Dream, I Travel
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Hallownest
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She/Her
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  1. sylveon
  2. absol-mega
  3. silvally-psychic
  4. ninetales-phantump
  5. cosmog
  6. gallade-phantump
  7. ceruledge-phantump
Okay, I’m awake, here’s my thoughts on everyone:

Windskull: Innocent

Equital: Innocent

Fusion: 50/50

Espy: 50/50

Dawning: Probably not actual mafia, but I didn’t have much faith in her after lynching Del, and now I have even less. I’m the third inexperienced player you’ve gone after for not playing the way you expect, so I’m not particularly inclined towards putting my faith in your future suspicions.

Persephone: I still don’t know what is sus about her (aside maybe from Del vote?) but I’ll take your words for it.
 

Equitial

Ace Trainer
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he/him
Partners
  1. espurr
  2. inkay
  3. woobat
  4. ralts
Also Waffle, but I'm assuming they'll be 50/50 from you too.
 
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