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[TOWN WIN] Darkwhite's Role Overdrive Mafia

ShiniGojira

Multiversal Extraordinaire
Location
Stranded In The Gaps between Multiverses
Pronouns
He/him/they/her
Partners
  1. froslass
  2. zorua-gojira
  3. salandit-shiny
Y'know, that's another thing. Only one elimination last night? In a group of almost twenty? My guardian's makin' a lot of noise about this. They're nervous about some kind of mass elimination event or ability?
[[I guess it's a little strange that there was only one death. A mass elimination ability sounds terrifying as hell but wouldn't Stringer be this game's version of Arsonist? Are you trying to say the Stringer's not an Arsonist? 'cause from what I read about Arsonist, this String thing sounds similar to Arsonist.]]
With at least three people claiming to be able to give some kind of ability or effect to others, not to mention the whole Strings thing...
[[Three people? Who's the third? I only remember Free's and Bluwii's. Are you saying the third one's the Stringer or something?]]
There is a swapper in play. Most likely, this swapper is a bad guy, but they might be a neutral guy. They could be a good guy, too, but Rock Friend doesn’t find this super likely. But…it could happen.
[[A Swapper does seem like something this game would have but how do you know that? Is your ability a role checker or something?]]
 

HelloYellow17

Gym Leader
Pronouns
She/Her
Partners
  1. suicune
  2. umbreon
  3. mew
  4. lycanroc-wes
  5. leafeon-rui
[[ my honest opinion is that the mafia's guess is probably as good as yours at this point and by claiming this knowledge yellow has already sort of taken the toothpaste out of the tube, so we might as well unpack it for all it's worth now, but i'm open to argument here and naturally if yellow doesn't want to divulge any further i will not press it. -q ]]
[[You think so? There’s many many different ways I could know about this. I find it rather odd and a bit fishy that your immediate response to this is “welp you’ve said too much so might as well tell all”. I’m not opposed to revealing more but I don’t think it’s necessary tbh.]]
 

Chibi Pika

Stay positive
Staff
Location
somewhere in spacetime
Pronouns
they/them
Partners
  1. pikachu-chibi
  2. lugia
  3. palkia
  4. lucario-shiny
  5. incineroar-starr
Ajia shook her head. "Guys, I really don't think we should be thinking of the strings as being similar to an arsonist, because from Dave's description, it sounds way closer to a cult leader. Their goal seems to be taking control of people, not eliminating them."

"And yeah, I have a few different ideas how Puck might know there's a swapper. Only one of them is the sort of thing that would really need to stay secret. So, as long as there's even a bit of uncertainty, I'd rather not ruin that."
 

bruh moment

mewtini + kyeugh
Location
Bruh City, USA
Pronouns
she/her (both)
[[You think so? There’s many many different ways I could know about this. I find it rather odd and a bit fishy that your immediate response to this is “welp you’ve said too much so might as well tell all”. I’m not opposed to revealing more but I don’t think it’s necessary tbh.]]
[[ i think you are jumping to conclusions a bit if you find it fishy. to me, the point of withholding information is to prevent turning power roles into targets. from my perspective, revealing that you have some means of discerning information about people’s roles would be alarming to the mafia—the target has been created now. obviously i don’t know what the power is and can’t say for sure, but it seemed/seems more likely to me that getting the information out there would help down more than hiding it would hurt mafia. i can’t make the exact calculus with incomplete information and you know best how to make that call, so i won’t press it. but i think it’s a bit uncharitable to assume i’m maliciously reaching for info when there are definite pro-town benefits to sharing information (as well as risks to town for revealing what you have already), in a role madness game most of all. -q ]]
 

HelloYellow17

Gym Leader
Pronouns
She/Her
Partners
  1. suicune
  2. umbreon
  3. mew
  4. lycanroc-wes
  5. leafeon-rui
[[ i think you are jumping to conclusions a bit if you find it fishy. to me, the point of withholding information is to prevent turning power roles into targets. from my perspective, revealing that you have some means of discerning information about people’s roles would be alarming to the mafia—the target has been created now. obviously i don’t know what the power is and can’t say for sure, but it seemed/seems more likely to me that getting the information out there would help down more than hiding it would hurt mafia. i can’t make the exact calculus with incomplete information and you know best how to make that call, so i won’t press it. but i think it’s a bit uncharitable to assume i’m maliciously reaching for info when there are definite pro-town benefits to sharing information (as well as risks to town for revealing what you have already), in a role madness game most of all. -q ]]
[[reasonable enough. I’ll see what other people have to say, but for now I’m content to say that I know there is a swapper. That’s really all town needs to know as of right now.]]
 

bruh moment

mewtini + kyeugh
Location
Bruh City, USA
Pronouns
she/her (both)
[[ fair enough. 😁

going to bed in a minute, but i want to say while i’m thinking about it: i think role madness requires kind of a different approach from vanilla-ish mafia, and my play this game is going to reflect that. in vanilla mafia you shut up about what happened at night 90% of the time and try to sus out the sussy bakas based on posts made in the day. in a role madness game, though, what happens at night is much more important. imo, town’s best tool for rooting out scum is figuring out the events of the night and tracing discrepancies, and i think a high thread information state favors town. that’s not to say everyone should claim right away (although i feel like i read somewhere that that’s technically optimal? seems really boring though), but it does mean that i think the usual impulse to hold one’s cards close to their chest has less utility in s setup like this.

none of this is intended to push yellow to pipe up at all; it’s a lot of words to say that if you see me chasing a weird train of thought about night actions as far as i can, or being a bit more loosey goosey with RR’s and pressing for sensitive information, this is why -q]]

Princess is writhing on the ground. The words… So many words… Make it stop! Whoa, is that weird bird connected to a goat butt? She wonders if she can do that.
 

Seren

Lurking
Staff
Pronouns
He/Him
Partners
  1. sableye
[[Okay, going to start with my traditional "catch-up from before end of day" post before I get caught up on the four pages of day 2 talk I've missed while at work yikes. ]]


“To be clear, my card specifically said anyone with dread four can’t use their action unless cured. That’s where the whole cure bit comes from. If there’s no curing it, then it’s an active red herring.” Dave paused, squinting at the card again. “Although, hang on, it could be what it means by that is that it also says all dread disappears if I’m eliminated. Great.”

Kimiko stared at Dave. "Well, thanks for clarifying. I must have missed that bit, and I'm pretty sure the rules said there would be no GM lying to us." Her gaze briefly drifted to Darkwhite. "So that settles that. Good to know we won't have to worry about dread if... well, let's hope it doesn't come to that, yeah?"

“For the record,” Dave cut in, “yes, I can pick who I target with it. I just can’t not target anyone. I think what the cactus is getting at is maybe we’ve got some dicks running around with swapping powers, where they can make me target someone other than who I actually pick. Which, yeah, that sounds like the kind of thing she’d do, doesn’t it. That’s why I was kind of planning not to tell you who I’m going to target, so the mafia can’t just direct it to whoever they please.”

"Okay, something else I was thinking that I wanted to address as a concern.

"Like a few others, I was very much *also* expecting more than one loss last night, though I also missed mafia not having a day chat. Anyway I have some mild concern that these strings are more worrysome than we thought. Imagine: someone taking control of Dave, a player we know is able to inflict some damage on other players, intentionally or not (he did specify he couldn't choose not to use his ability and hand out dread... if someone gains control of him, they could stack dread on someone else very quickly.) I also suspect there's more of these types of effects in play; Whether or not they belong to a third party (or multiple third parties) or not, remains to be seen.

"My point is, though... I suspect we only saw one death because the likelihood of multiple kills in the night will go up the longer we let this continue."

Kimiko (Snivy) [Seren] -- I debated whether to put them here or in the active and scheming category. They showed up late, but offered a goodly amount of thoughts; though, as a side effect of being late only after other people have talked. They townlead DF and also Shini. Agrees with a bunch of Chibi and Inke takes.

[[ Just putting another reminder out there for anyone unfamiliar with me that I am often inactive/late due to working 40 hours a week, and end of day happens at 2 in the afternoon. I can only really post either on my days off (normally Sunday/Wednesday), or very late after I get home/before bed while only being able to skim the thread rather than read every single post in detail.

This naturally leads to me only being able to quote/agree with people who have had 15 hours between me going to bed and and then getting home from work the next day to post all the points I was going to make, if any. I try to remedy my lateness by offering my thoughts on anything I was going to say ANYWAY, just to emphasize that yes, I am late and people have already said the things I was going to say, but I am doing my best here. ]]


[[note: I'm not counting activity level as a playstyle change. there are a million reasons why someone might be busy today and then have more free time tomorrow.]]

[[ Thank you ]]

[[It's okay, project confidence. Give some closing thoughts and relax.]]

[[Last catch-up note, I'm absolutely loving this little bit of RP reassurance for Laura. Hell, I love how everyone's RPing. ]]


[[ Next post will catch-up on day 2. ]]
 

unrepentantAuthor

A cat that writes stories.
Location
UK
Pronouns
they/she
Partners
  1. purrloin-salem
  2. sneasel-dusk
  3. luz-companion
  4. brisa-companion
  5. meowth-laura
  6. delphox-jesse
  7. mewtwo
  8. zeraora
"Hope you get fucking cancer."
[[I've hardly slept and my throat is inflamed but this is hilarious oh my god. Anyway back to reading posts. Only two and a half pages in 7-8 hours, that's not so bad]]
 

unrepentantAuthor

A cat that writes stories.
Location
UK
Pronouns
they/she
Partners
  1. purrloin-salem
  2. sneasel-dusk
  3. luz-companion
  4. brisa-companion
  5. meowth-laura
  6. delphox-jesse
  7. mewtwo
  8. zeraora
[[Second-guessing my reads a lot on first read. Gonna try and get more sleep and see how posts feel on second read and with a more wakeful brain. Gonna say with my shitty mono-addled 7am brain that I don't think we have much reason to assume the diamond is a swapped bluwii thing at all, although the discussion that resulted was interesting. Aren't there like 80 powers in play this game? I can think of a bunch of reasons for the diamond. Meanwhile I'm not even a little surprised about the Dread result, but it's nice to be sure it works. It's a little intimidating, I know, but it's not that much of a danger if managed correctly, and could even be an asset, assuming Free is town. Which is my working assumption rn based on how up front she was, with moderate confidence. I don't want to let terrifying flavour and mandatory Bad Number Increase prevent helpful use of a tool that can support the town wincon, and while Pano/Sidney's alarm about eventual high dread counts seems like standard Pano caution, it'll be a while before Free is forced to disable people, and those people could be scum! I haven't run the numbers yet, but she's better at Numbers than I am anyway. Okay, I think that's my 7am mono brain dry now. Gonna try to sleep shortly. Wish me luck x]]
 

Seren

Lurking
Staff
Pronouns
He/Him
Partners
  1. sableye
"Oh, yes! I think you SHOULD make it a desert!" Courtney said gleefully. She looked around at the phantasms manning the various stalls and listened to the carnival music playing. She had never been to a fair before. But her childhood had been filled with plenty of ghosts. "Hmm... would there be any harm in torching this place down? After all, if it's just a bunch of ghosts, a bit of fire won't hurt anyone--right?"

Kimiko shivered when nightfall broke. Oh god, they were in a carnival. Not too awful in and of itself, except this one was something out of a horror movie, creepy music and all. It seemed as though all the stalls were operating by themselves. There were her ghosts. "I'm all for burning it down," she said.

"I am saying to not be surprised if no one speaks up about it today, as there are many reasons as to why no one will take responsibility."
"Isn't it a bit foolish to assume that the delcatty got the power meant for the abomination? There are many other alternative, and more likely explanations to this. Honing in on just this one is shortsighted at best."
He squinted at the Delcatty, then the Slakoth. "Well, what he said yesterday was the recipient of the vote power thing wouldn't know anything about it, so I definitely took it they wouldn't get a glowing fucking diamond on their chest. That's besides the whole redirecting daytime actions thing. So unless he's got something to say that makes that sound even remotely likely, I'm guessing this was somebody else. Fucking everybody has a bunch of powers in this thing; why wouldn't there be another person who can put diamonds on people? We just plain don't have the information right now to guess what's up with it, but at any rate it doesn't look harmful, so I think we're fine to ignore it for now. Person who did it probably shouldn't speak up about it."

"Just going to echo this. It was said beforehand that the recipient of Sans' ability wouldn't know about it. So why would there be a bright, glowing marker on them? And on that note..."

And that brings things to the diamond. “Diamonds, diamonds…” Mythology was more Cuicatl’s thing, but he’d picked up some things in Japan and Alola. “I know there’s a cult in Japan that uses a diamond as a symbol. They worship a time god. Time could do anything, though. Change the length of the day, undo votes, reverse actions… who knows. Or it could be Diancie. Rebirth. Protection. I hope it’s Diancie. That’s less ominous.”

"If we're looking for origins, maybe it's less about the shape? Are there any light legendaries?" There were a couple she thought might be related, but hesitated to speak them. She still had doubts that it was connected to speaking your own patron or if it could be more random than that, but she wasn't about to take any chances. Let the others think of them for themselves, and share names if they so chose.

[[ This was prompted by Namo's introduction of the mark, here:

There was also another curiosity at play, and it was right on one of the players. Ajia had a diamond-shaped symbol of light on her chest. It didn’t seem to do anything else, though.

Why was it not, say, tattoo'd onto the target, or something, for example? Not sure this is relevant, but something that caught my eye that no one's mentioned yet either way. ]]

"Y'know, that's another thing. Only one elimination last night? In a group of almost twenty? My guardian's makin' a lot of noise about this. They're nervous about some kind of mass elimination event or ability? With at least three people claiming to be able to give some kind of ability or effect to others, not to mention the whole Strings thing... Like, I know we shouldn't panic, but... should we be more nervous about these kinds of things?"

"Agreed with this, too. My guardian says 'refer to his previous post', but generally we agree that there's probably more than one delayed killing ability at work here. Unless anyone has any ways to counter them, though, I don't know what else we can do about them right now..."

[[I'm starting to think that the strings might be a third party, similar to an arsonist but an arsonist who can act in the day. Is that the technical term? Oh well. Either way, I'm expecting Strings to attach to players randomly with no connection to their Legendaries.]]

"I'm not sure about this, honestly. What if it's just someone's passive ability? It's someone's ability, sure. But people seem to be treating it as some activated effect, like... someone actively doing it. But it feels to me more like a passive effect and we don't know the trigger. Doesn't make it third party, given how many abilities everyone has... but given that I also suspect we have multiple similar effects in play here, I wouldn't rule out a third party yet, either."

[[You think so? There’s many many different ways I could know about this. I find it rather odd and a bit fishy that your immediate response to this is “welp you’ve said too much so might as well tell all”. I’m not opposed to revealing more but I don’t think it’s necessary tbh.]]

Her attention shifted to the quagsire's guardian stone. "I'm kind of in the same mind space here. With how many abilities we have, I suepct there's a ton of abilities Puck could have that could have failed to work properly (admittedly I don't have a list handy and I'm still too inexperienced [[ and strapped for time ]] that I wouldn't even think of attempting to create one, but I imagine it wouldn't be hard for someone more familiar with the game to whip something up if it becomes an issue). I'm... definitely curious how you know it was a swapper rather than just you being blocked or something, but I agree, if it's not necessary to say so, don't put a target on your back, Puck. " [[ We may need to use you for future post reacts! ]]

Ajia shook her head. "Guys, I really don't think we should be thinking of the strings as being similar to an arsonist, because from Dave's description, it sounds way closer to a cult leader. Their goal seems to be taking control of people, not eliminating them."

"And yeah, I have a few different ideas how Puck might know there's a swapper. Only one of them is the sort of thing that would really need to stay secret. So, as long as there's even a bit of uncertainty, I'd rather not ruin that."

With a sigh, she turned to the delcatty. "Oh, cult leader is an actual role? I thought Dave was implying they could legit take control of him and therefore use his abilities on targets of their choosing regardless of Dave's wishes. Admittedly I imagine hard to enforce, I suppose, but that's where I've been getting the 'multiple delayed deaths' angle from. There's gotta be more than that, though, too. Even if I were correct, that's a lot of effort involved for just two night kills in a game this large..."

[[That's all I've got for now. Almost midnight, been home for three hours, need dinner. If things happen before I go to bed I will attempt to address, but otherwise, goodnight. ]]
 

ShiniGojira

Multiversal Extraordinaire
Location
Stranded In The Gaps between Multiverses
Pronouns
He/him/they/her
Partners
  1. froslass
  2. zorua-gojira
  3. salandit-shiny
[[Dread also feels a bit like either a slow build up to Cultist, or maybe it's a slow build up to death. Who knows.]]
[[I don't think it's a build up. It says it does not have any impact on me at the moment. I mean, Namo did say that their posts can be interpreted in different ways so I'm not sure if the 'At the moment' means that it'll gradually increase or if it's referring to the fact that Free can increase my dread by targeting me again.]]

Fray giggled. "It tickles."
"If we're looking for origins, maybe it's less about the shape? Are there any light legendaries?"
[[A Legendary that comes to my mind would be Necrozma... but it's usually depicted as a monstrous being so...]]
 

Dragonfree

Moderator
Staff
Location
Iceland
Pronouns
she/her/hers
Partners
  1. butterfree
  2. mightyena
  3. charizard
  4. scyther-mia
  5. vulpix
  6. slugma
If the swapper is a bad guy…hmm. Then that would make a certain player look bad, right?
“Personally,” Dave said, “for the moment I’m less interested in exactly how he knows there’s a swapper and more in what certain player he thinks it implicates. If you’re pretty sure someone’s not a good guy, better spill it.”

[[Maybe that’s not what you meant by that? It looks like you’re saying someone in particular looks suspect because of it.]]

Imagine: someone taking control of Dave, a player we know is able to inflict some damage on other players, intentionally or not (he did specify he couldn't choose not to use his ability and hand out dread... if someone gains control of him, they could stack dread on someone else very quickly.)
“The taking control thing sounded like it was referring to just winning the game. Taking control of everything if enough people were recruited.”

[[That’s how I read it, at any rate - could be wrong, but.]]

[[Dread also feels a bit like either a slow build up to Cultist, or maybe it's a slow build up to death. Who knows.]]
Dave sighed. “It is a slow buildup to death; that’s what I said. Won’t build up if I can help it, but if there’s a mafia swapper that definitely opens some doors. If I was a cult leader, probably would not have gone out of my way to warn you all about a cult when you wouldn’t have known it existed, you know?”
 

Seren

Lurking
Staff
Pronouns
He/Him
Partners
  1. sableye
but it's usually depicted as a monstrous being so...]]

"This was one I had in mind as well," Kimiko said, nodding. "Also was thinking along those lines, but my answer to your second point would be: if we're considering the possibility that Dave's patron being Good Actually is Namocore, then why wouldn't this possibly also apply to this one as well?"

[[ Also something that I've suddenly realized and hope this doesn't come back to bite me in the ass later, given my paranoia over mentioning any legendary by name in my posts... would we expect this to apply to posts we quote as well, or would it have to be the player directly "saying" the name?

For example, if someone else mentioned genesect, would me quoting that count as me "saying" it in my post or would I have to "type it out" myself? (Using this example because I've already used genesect's name in a previous post so I theoretically would have already screwed myself over in that case, so repeating it now shouldn't hurt.)

This is 100% hypothetical and I'm probably just paranoid but. ]]

“The taking control thing sounded like it was referring to just winning the game. Taking control of everything if enough people were recruited.”

[[That’s how I read it, at any rate - could be wrong, but.]]

[[ To be honest, this would by far be the simpler explanation, and probably more likely. If you don't think it works the way I thought it does, frankly I'm more inclined to trust your experience than my own wild imagination. I'll keep it in the back of my mind though, really don't want to rule anything out without concrete reasoning. ]]

[[ Actually going to bed now, seeya in 19~ hours~ ]]
 

ShiniGojira

Multiversal Extraordinaire
Location
Stranded In The Gaps between Multiverses
Pronouns
He/him/they/her
Partners
  1. froslass
  2. zorua-gojira
  3. salandit-shiny
"Also was thinking along those lines, but my answer to your second point would be: if we're considering the possibility that Dave's patron being Good Actually is Namocore, then why wouldn't this possibly also apply to this one as well?"
[[Well, it's not as if we know whether the mark on Aija/Chibi is good or not. I mean with how everyone's been talking about Chibi's experience and skill. If it's a good ability then it makes sense to choose them but if it's a bad ability, it also makes sense if a scum picked them.]]
 

unrepentantAuthor

A cat that writes stories.
Location
UK
Pronouns
they/she
Partners
  1. purrloin-salem
  2. sneasel-dusk
  3. luz-companion
  4. brisa-companion
  5. meowth-laura
  6. delphox-jesse
  7. mewtwo
  8. zeraora
[[Hi, instead of sleeping I played L'Arceus. Oops.

Anyway, I'm interested in this potential lead. How sure are we that a scum swapper might exist? Town bus drivers aren't unheard of on TR but they're usually negative utility for town. They can, of course, be used to protect high profile players, but early game bus driver casts are... often unhelpful. I would hesitate to assume that a bus driver is scum, but it's traditionally a scum role (especially on TR) and I consider it far more likely than town bus. In any case, whatever the means by which Yellow/Puck are aware of a swapper, I think the odds are moderately in favour of that person being scum. Maybe two in three?]]
 

Dragonfree

Moderator
Staff
Location
Iceland
Pronouns
she/her/hers
Partners
  1. butterfree
  2. mightyena
  3. charizard
  4. scyther-mia
  5. vulpix
  6. slugma
[[ Also something that I've suddenly realized and hope this doesn't come back to bite me in the ass later, given my paranoia over mentioning any legendary by name in my posts... would we expect this to apply to posts we quote as well, or would it have to be the player directly "saying" the name?

For example, if someone else mentioned genesect, would me quoting that count as me "saying" it in my post or would I have to "type it out" myself? (Using this example because I've already used genesect's name in a previous post so I theoretically would have already screwed myself over in that case, so repeating it now shouldn't hurt.)

This is 100% hypothetical and I'm probably just paranoid but. ]]
[[I know this was my wild theory to begin with, but I think you’re probably taking it a bit far here. What I was imagining was something where the stringer would have to identify a particular player’s legendary to string them - I think it’d be a considerably stranger, more broken mechanic if anyone saying the name of any legendary becomes strung, though I can’t rule it out. In either case it was wild speculation that it had anything to do with it!

We can basically test that theory, though - both Torchic and Sinderella mentioned Cresselia yesterday. Did either of them get strings?]]
 

unrepentantAuthor

A cat that writes stories.
Location
UK
Pronouns
they/she
Partners
  1. purrloin-salem
  2. sneasel-dusk
  3. luz-companion
  4. brisa-companion
  5. meowth-laura
  6. delphox-jesse
  7. mewtwo
  8. zeraora
[[Not that it's a strong indicator of alignment or anything but this sort of speculation is typical for Seren's play, as I recall it.]]
 

Dragonfree

Moderator
Staff
Location
Iceland
Pronouns
she/her/hers
Partners
  1. butterfree
  2. mightyena
  3. charizard
  4. scyther-mia
  5. vulpix
  6. slugma
[[In general, be wary of treating speculated mechanics as actual mechanics - town can easily get super misled by assuming mechanics that someone just sort of made up are real. It’s good to keep possibilities in mind, but also we have to keep straight what’s stuff we actually know and have reason to believe and what’s just someone’s wild theory!]]
 

Dragonfree

Moderator
Staff
Location
Iceland
Pronouns
she/her/hers
Partners
  1. butterfree
  2. mightyena
  3. charizard
  4. scyther-mia
  5. vulpix
  6. slugma
[[Not that it's a strong indicator of alignment or anything but this sort of speculation is typical for Seren's play, as I recall it.]]
[[Do agree with this, though - I’m not reading Seren’s speculation here as agenda-driven or suspicious at all. Just a general-purpose reminder for town not to get stuck on something I basically made up because I did something like that as GM once.]]
 

unrepentantAuthor

A cat that writes stories.
Location
UK
Pronouns
they/she
Partners
  1. purrloin-salem
  2. sneasel-dusk
  3. luz-companion
  4. brisa-companion
  5. meowth-laura
  6. delphox-jesse
  7. mewtwo
  8. zeraora
[[Absolutely true. Also there are, again, 60 (now 57) powers in play. We could be totally right by sheer chance and it still would only be a fraction of the whole picture. Don't get hung up on a promising jigsaw piece when you haven't built the edges yet, might be a good analogy.]]
 
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