[TOWN WINS] Third Anniversary Fanfic Mafia - Game Thread

[Panoramic_Vacuum]

[[Cop still needs to form reads-- only having reads on the people they check isn't nearly enough to solve the game. Saying cop wouldn't use stuff going on in the thread to solve stuff is absurd. A cop would have like, three total reads by this point if that were the case, and by the lack of outed red checks from Chibi or anyone else, I'd guess those three reads would all be town.
I don't think the "I know things" act came off as entirely faked, especially since I don't feel like it went away entirely immediately upon the explanation. Maybe their method of handling it was exaggeratedly scummy, but I do think there was some truth to them knowing stuff.]]

[[Urgh it's late and my last sentence was an over-exaggeration. I'm saying that the reasoning for the reads they had developed felt like they came from things that weren't Cop reads, which would be the things a Cop would be most sure of (pending swaps, but there hasn't been evidence of other swaps in the game afaik). I don't think the "I know things" was faked either. I'm sure Chibi has some kind of information, but I don't think it's Cop info.]]

 

[Panoramic_Vacuum]

[[I'm heading to bed, but I will be awake before EoD. I need to do a better read because as we've all seen, I have trust issues.

Both claimed roles are valuable, and losing them would not be fun. But testing the claims also seems dangerous. I keep thinking to myself "we could just have DW redirect Virgil's shot to test it and Bench could protect the redirect target" except I also keep forgetting it's Strong and that also means we lose Bench or Bench is lying and we lose the redirect target.

Also I really want to hear what Tetra has to say. Tetra don't leave us hanging!

In the meantime, though.
Unvote: DawningWinds

See you in the morning.]]

 

[DawningWinds]

[[Urgh it's late and my last sentence was an over-exaggeration. I'm saying that the reasoning for the reads they had developed felt like they came from things that weren't Cop reads, which would be the things a Cop would be most sure of (pending swaps, but there hasn't been evidence of other swaps in the game afaik). I don't think the "I know things" was faked either. I'm sure Chibi has some kind of information, but I don't think it's Cop info.]]

[[Yes, some of Chibi's reads don't appear to come from cop info, but I do think their reads that they've refused to elaborate on do seem to be reads that they are pretty dang confident in. I don't think there's anything indicating they can't be cop.]]

Both claimed roles are valuable, and losing them would not be fun. But testing the claims also seems dangerous. I keep thinking to myself "we could just have DW redirect Virgil's shot to test it and Bench could protect the redirect target" except I also keep forgetting it's Strong and that also means we lose Bench or Bench is lying and we lose the redirect target.

[[Stong just bypasses protectives. We would not lose Bench, Bench's role would get cut right through in favour of killing Virgil's target. We can't use the Strongman vig to test the Bodyguard.]]

 

[Flyg0n]

Rascal roared, trying to get everyone's attention. She snarled at the Ledian, half ready to just jump him now and tear him apart- But no, she wouldn't be able to hurt him for real. Not right now. But he did sound an awful lot like a liar. And she hated liars. Especially ones who would hurt people.

"I don't believe you," she growled.


[[ Okay so first thing I don't think we should mass claim, I still agree that's dangerous.

Okay so let's see.... first things first... I didn't want to, but I feel like I need to say this because it will open up a lot more communication for town and help more than hurt town. So I'll go ahead and claim because I want time to talk about this conundrum.

I believe without question (uh, almost without question) that kichiro is... guilty.

Why? The same reason I kept talking about Karo being someone who can only act on certain nights.

My power is called Big Jaws, aka biting people at night, aka even/odd night vigilante. Starting with Night 1, I can kill one target on odd nights. Night 1, 3 ,5 etc. Obviously Night 1 I didn't use it because I felt so null on everyone I didn't want to risk killing someone on town. But with Kichiro trying to claim to be a vig this is why I had to step forwards. I feel like me saying this can really give town more information rather than less, even if it means risking my life.

What are the odds that there's two vigilantes? Kichiro's claim feels weird for all the reasons outlined by others already. Of course, we do have three mailmen.

I know claiming this is maybe a death sentence because I'm vig and scum probably wants me dead.

But if we're talking about trying to plan and ensure town's best chances of survival, I felt like this helps the most.

So the real question here is.... do we believe its possible town got two vigilantes? I don't think that sounds right, which is why I feel like Kichiro tried to make up something valuable sounding to avoid dying one more night, to pull off some kind of win scenario. Or bait the real vig into talking in which case uhm.... Shoot I got played. ^^'

But then again I have done this before when weird claims happen that run counter to my knowledge and I tear into someone (lol the Mike incident and lovers incident and stuff). Which is the only thing stopping me from going ballistic on Kichiro right now.]]

 

[NeoLurosa]

I know claiming this is maybe a death sentence because I'm vig and scum probably wants me dead.

[[Yooooo whut

Yeah uh, this just solidifies my scum read on Kichiro because I seriously doubt we would have two Town Vigs. However, all hope is not lost yet! If Bench truly is what he claims to be, and mafia have used their strongman (which they most certainly have, given Negrek’s flavor in the most recent death post), then you have a shot at surviving to the next day. This is also a good way to test if Bench is really being truthful. Plus, we probably still have a doc out there somewhere…maybe…? Uh, unless Namo was our doc. That would suck.

Anyway, with this new piece of info, I REALLY do not think a mass claim is a good idea. I think we have enough info to create a plan now.]]

 

[NeoLurosa]

[[Forgot to say that this is Yellow speaking, though tbh I think it’s probably easy enough to discern who is talking between me and Jackie. 🤣]]

 

[Inkedust]

So the real question here is.... do we believe its possible town got two vigilantes? I don't think that sounds right, which is why I feel like Kichiro tried to make up something valuable sounding to avoid dying one more night, to pull off some kind of win scenario. Or bait the real vig into talking in which case uhm.... Shoot I got played. ^^'

But then again I have done this before when weird claims happen that run counter to my knowledge and I tear into someone (lol the Mike incident and lovers incident and stuff). Which is the only thing stopping me from going ballistic on Kichiro right now.

[[Three Mailmen, while pushing it, does sound far more plausible than two Vigs. Given that a Mailman is generally more low-power than something that can actually swing a game (Cop, Watcher, Vigilante). A vig with an excusive Strong shot also begs the question of... Why didn't Negrek just give such a thing to the actual vig?

With this claim in mind, I do feel slightly more inclined to trust Bench's Bodyguard claim, since this would pin Virgil as the Mafia Strongman, not Bench.

Anyway, with this new piece of info, I REALLY do not think a mass claim is a good idea. I think we have enough info to create a plan now.

I'm going to agree with this for now. I was for a mass-claim since I wanted to try and sus out any potential fakeclaims to give us proper leads, but with Tetra's counter, I'm happy to let it rest for at least one more night. Want to see what everyone else says about this though.]]

 

[Flyg0n]

[[Yeah, I figured saying something now would help us make a real and proper plan instead of debating on the truth of Kichiro's statement.

Although is there any real chance this is a two vig thing? I'll be curious what type of reply or defense Virgil will say to this.

I don't think there is, but I like to try and consider all aspects. Anyways more importantly I'd like to make a plan.

My vote stays on Virgil for now but I have some ideas I need to mull on further that may help us make some good moves....

 

[DawningWinds]

[[As an alternative to the Bench plan we could have Tetra and Kichiro shoot each other tonight? I can take blockers off of Tetra. There's pretty minimal risk of two town deaths that way.
Tetra's the more trusted of the two vigs it seems like and the only way she can die with this plan is Kichiro telling the truth-- which would imply Tetra's scum anyway.
This means we can focus our attention somewhere other than the vig debacle today and get it resolved without having to worry too much about two town death's tonight since one of the vigs is probably lying, so them shooting each other ensures the one that's lying is dead tomorrow.]]

 

[DawningWinds]

[[That said, I am okay with waiting on massclaiming at this point. I just don't think lynching in the vigs is the way to go since they can be used to sort themselves out and with two that can be done with minimal risk.]]

 

[Flyg0n]

[[I feel like there's enough chance that if i was going to waste my vig shot on kichiro we might as well vote him out.

Naturally you may not 100% believe me but
A) What reason would I have to counterclaim when he was already being wagoned pretty heavy
B) I know I'm a vig and town lol, so I'd prefer the option that has the biggest chance at killing a scum]]

 

[Flyg0n]

[[Basically, to me, the biggest thing to resolve is if we think there can be two vigs.

If no, we vote off Kichiro now, he's 100% the liar in my eyes
If there is some kind of harebrained chance at two vigs we need a plan to deal with kichiro that doesn't hurt town.]]

 

[Inkedust]

[That said, I am okay with waiting on massclaiming at this point. I just don't think lynching in the vigs is the way to go since they can be used to sort themselves out and with two that can be done with minimal risk.

[[Dude, I don't think leaving the person most likely to be the Mafia Strongman alive is a good idea. Two Vigs as a concept seems unlikely to begin with due to their power alongside literally every other red flag Virgil has raised. I am like...99% sure that Virgil is Mafia at this point.]]

 

[DawningWinds]

[[Dude, I don't think leaving the person most likely to be the Mafia Strongman alive is a good idea. Two Vigs as a concept seems unlikely to begin with due to their power alongside literally every other red flag Virgil has raised. I am like...99% sure that Virgil is Mafia at this point.]]

[[
1. Strongman is 1-shot 99% of the time, and Mafia's is already used.
2. If Virgil's the Mafia strongman Tetra shoots him tonight and he dies either way. This just reduces the chance of use losing the wrong vig.]]

 

[DawningWinds]

[[Basically, to me, the biggest thing to resolve is if we think there can be two vigs.

If no, we vote off Kichiro now, he's 100% the liar in my eyes
If there is some kind of harebrained chance at two vigs we need a plan to deal with kichiro that doesn't hurt town.]]

[[I do not think there is any significant chance of double vig. As others noted Negrek experimented with lower-powered role madness last year and the triple mailman feels similar to that-- double vig would be directly contrary to that concept. One of you is scum and I would like to kill the one who is with the least chance of losing the town vig.]]

 

[Flyg0n]

[[But if there isn't two vigs I'm wasting the chance to bite someone else who could be scum, cause if there isn't two vigs kichiro is very much lying]]

 

[Flyg0n]

[[If no one including me thinks two vigs is a real thing I'm voting kichiro off and biting someone else]]

 

[Inkedust]

[[
1. Strongman is 1-shot 99% of the time, and Mafia's is already used.
2. If Virgil's the Mafia strongman Tetra shoots him tonight and he dies either way. This just reduces the chance of use losing the wrong vig.]]

[[Going off historical knowledge of the TR meta, Strongman is an inherited role if they die first/early since it is literally the Mafia's Factional Kill in Role Madness. Removing the Strongman, even when used, is likely to diminish Mafia's power because they'll have less to do at night due to one of their previous roles being removed from play. Giving Mafia one more night at full power will do nothing but detriment Town even further.

Now, I don't know if that applies to this game, but I don't see much of a reason why the same wouldn't be true here.]]

 

[Chibi Pika]

"Y'know... I was lookin' at the rules and it says the bad guys could have somethin' called Strongman or somethin' else called Strengthener. And that one wouldn't hafta be one-shot."

[[I know that historically it's always been Strongman, and Negrek probably just put both to keep us on our toes, but I'm inclined to agree with Inke that based on the inheritance clause, we really don't want another night of full-powered mafia.]]

 

[Flyg0n]

[[Anyways, I wanna stay up and talk mafia but I also wanna sleep but also the days ends at 8AM for me.

Alas. I'll try to wake up really quick to see developments though before day end.

I'm not going to bed this instant but soon.]]