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[INNOCENTS WIN] First Anniversary Fanfic Mafia - Game Thread

elyvorg

somewhat backwards
Pronouns
she/they
Partners
  1. grovyle
I should also add that if we're wrong about Sike, losing a doctor sucks, but it's not quite as bad as losing an inforole, which we might accidentally do if we lynch randomly. Especially since the probable strongman power makes doctors ever so slightly less valuable than they'd usually be.
 

Tanuki

Friend of All Chu
Location
Rhyme City
Pronouns
He/him/his
[[Desper took many a drink from his ever flowin’ medicine. S’wounded, he might just cry. “Y’all, I’m hurt. Callin’ me dumb just ‘cause y’can’t understand me? ‘S like the prophet says: the wise look a fool in the presence of the dumb.”]]

OOC y’all I know I’m an idiot but you don’t all have to say it at once. Ouch. There are more pertinent matters.
 

Tanuki

Friend of All Chu
Location
Rhyme City
Pronouns
He/him/his
Ok I guess it wasn’t all at once since I was asleep for a while, but still. If any of you has an ounce of chill, I would appreciate it. ;_;
 

Equitial

Ace Trainer
Pronouns
he/him
Partners
  1. espurr
  2. inkay
  3. woobat
  4. ralts
Are you referring to me or Sparkling Espeon? Or have we combined into a single entity? :P
I was referring to you. You were my most suspicious inactive yesterday, before the thread erupted into fire.

Okay, on Namo... Elyvorg's thoughts on the matter make me a lot less certain of his guilt than I was before. Because of other arguments I also think now that Tanuki's probably not mafia, so whether Namo flips guilty or innocent wouldn't change my opinion of him. I am still am suspicious of Namo though. Him claiming to be a limited vigilante would still make sense if he's mafia because it wouldn't require him to instantly prove himself. However, my biggest issues with him now and then aren't that specific claim but more his suggestions to 1) divide the healers, thus leaving us vulnerable to role-blocking and 2) lynch SparklingEspeon, which would have lost us a day and if he is a vigilante he could just have offered to take care of during the night.

Also due to arguments and thinking about how the swaps would have worked while doing laundry, I now consider Sike more suspicious than DawningWinds. She's the one actually implicated by Espeon's testimony, not DW.

I... never actually considered that SparklingEspeon could be Mafia and lying. I guess I'm inclined to think she's innocent, just from the vibes I get from her,

I weighed some pros and cons and worked it out like this:

Namo: If we lynch and he turns out guilty, there's probably a roleblocker, which could explain Espeon not seeing Sike. Sike is less implicated. If innocent, we lose a odd-numbered vigilante.

Sike: If we lynch and she turns out guilty, nothing besides we've taken out a mafia. Actually, Elvyorg pointed out then we can move on to suspect DawningWinds, more so than before. If innocent, we can guess there's a roleblocker but we've lost a healer.

DW: If we lynch and they turn out guilty, I would kind of be inclined to believe that they're a mafia bus driver, because that's the only way I could see them making their claim. So, we probably took out a mafia with a role? We're also no longer certain qva is innocent. If innocent, qva's also probably innocent. We lose a swapper.

Espeon: If we lynch and she turns out guilty, we no longer have reason to suspect DW or Sike. I also suppose that Namo would be less likely to suggest to lynch her, so then I guess I'd less suspect Namo of being guilty too. I really don't think she's lying, though. This seems wildly unlikely. If innocent, we lose (an admittedly inactive) watcher.

Right now I'm torn between Namo and Sike. Sike's claim still seems really legitimate to me, even though Espeon is implicating her. I'm less certain of Namo than before, but I still think he's suspicious. Lynching Sike would give info either way, but again I'm still eyeing Namo and I think an every night healer is better than a vigilante. I really don't know what to think, but I feel like Jen would go with Namo, so I'll let my ropeplay character be the tie-breaker.

I feel like we're going Sike or dw though. And if Namo's still around tomorrow, I'm inclined to just let him go prove himself the next night, so all my pondering was probably useless afsdfsgasdgds
 

Equitial

Ace Trainer
Pronouns
he/him
Partners
  1. espurr
  2. inkay
  3. woobat
  4. ralts
By the way, I'm aware from the Discord that Sike is going to be posting soon to defend herself, but I might not be able to get another post in before the end of the day. If I had the chance, I'd have waited for her.
 

windskull

Bidoof Fan
Staff
Partners
  1. sneasel-nip
  2. bidoof
  3. absol
  4. kirlia
  5. windskull-bidoof
  6. little-guy-windskull
  7. purugly
  8. mawile
  9. manectric
Okay, on Namo... Elyvorg's thoughts on the matter make me a lot less certain of his guilt than I was before. Because of other arguments I also think now that Tanuki's probably not mafia, so whether Namo flips guilty or innocent wouldn't change my opinion of him. I am still am suspicious of Namo though. Him claiming to be a limited vigilante would still make sense if he's mafia because it wouldn't require him to instantly prove himself. However, my biggest issues with him now and then aren't that specific claim but more his suggestions to 1) divide the healers, thus leaving us vulnerable to role-blocking and 2) lynch SparklingEspeon, which would have lost us a day and if he is a vigilante he could just have offered to take care of during the night.
I won't argue point one with you, because I kind of agree with that myself. I do think earlier arguments regarding Namo approaching things from a role-light meta perspective are still possible, but that's not enough to prove innocence to me. I'm still leaning Namo innocent, but... I just think it's something to keep in mind.

As for your second point... based on the discord conversation in which Espy initially requested to be lynched, which Tanuki included earlier as verification, I think his suggestion to go through with lynching her was based on him wanting to respect her wishes. His text read to me as being open to lynching someone else.

As such, I'm of the opinion that even if Namo was lying about his role, his suggestion to go through with lynching was Espurr was based off of that conversation, not some ulterior motive.
 

elyvorg

somewhat backwards
Pronouns
she/they
Partners
  1. grovyle
Ok I guess it wasn’t all at once since I was asleep for a while, but still. If any of you has an ounce of chill, I would appreciate it. ;_;

Oh no, I'm sorry if any of my posts made you feel bad! I promise, Tefiren's harsh and blunt thoughts on the matter do not reflect my own; I mentioned in my sign-up post that he is very bad at tact and people skills. Desper isn't the first person Tefiren's called stupid this game, and he probably won't be the last.

On my end, while I may think a lot of your plays have been rather questionable, I realise that you've been playing that way because, innocent or mafia, you're trying, and I can appreciate that.

And for what it's worth, I've been enjoying your RPing! Desper is difficult to decipher, but I'm finding him rather endearing all the same.
Namo: If we lynch and he turns out guilty, there's probably a roleblocker, which could explain Espeon not seeing Sike. Sike is less implicated. If innocent, we lose a odd-numbered vigilante.
Why would Namo being guilty mean there's a roleblocker? Just because of the alphabet thing? I feel like that's still pretty flaky and not concrete - a hypothetical mafia!Namo could have just suggested that anyway because they genuinely thought it'd be a helpful suggestion and was trying to seem helpful.
 

Tanuki

Friend of All Chu
Location
Rhyme City
Pronouns
He/him/his
Oh no, I'm sorry if any of my posts made you feel bad! I promise
No, sorry, don’t worry about it. I knew it was just Teifren being Teifren. It was just a lot of people calling my actions into question “at once” (when I was catching up), and I thought I’d make a joke of it. I’ve no illusions my play so far has been questionable to say the least. Seeing Desper on the lynch list was something of a surprise, but looking back I’m not sure why.
 

Sike Saner

fundead
Location
*aurorus noise*
Pronouns
she/her
Partners
  1. glalie
[[Ntairow's tail and eyes alike swept over the congregation, wondering how the tide had turned against her so swiftly. Was she being too passive? She certainly felt like she was. Did it seem like she was covering for fellow wrongdoers?

Or were they all just afraid of her?

Her hands twitched in anger... but only briefly. In a way, she supposed, she couldn't blame them, especially not for the latter possibility.

"I have only tried to protect you," she said quietly. "I know you have no real reason to trust me, and plenty of reason to fear me. If you'll have me... I would like to continue trying to keep you safe. But if it would put you at ease, I am willing to be jailed, if that's the way the votes pan out."]]

Yeah, ultimately Ntairow has no real means of defending herself. Not even rage and psybeams, lol. (Incidentally, no, that wasn't a self-vote.) As for me... honestly, the only way I can think of for my actions on Chibi to not register to our apparent watcher is if I got roleblocked. Which, of course, I have no means of proving, so... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Incidentally, I'm really sorry I didn't answer the calls to post sooner. I have a shitty sleep schedule--it's rare I get up before like 1:30 EST these days (I'm not EST, for the record; I'm EST-1), and once I did I had several pages to read through. Granted, what I'm saying now is based on my out-of-thread life, so feel free to take it with as many grains of salt as feels prudent.

I'm wondering, meanwhile, why it seems so odd that the mafia could be taking random shots this early in the game? Cause like, I feel like we're all basically gambling at the start. Unless they can have some sort of coppish role themselves, they don't know our roles any more than most of us* know each others'. All they can do is guess. All they can do is decide whether or not they believe the claims and the potential evidence offered up.

This is pure conjecture, though; I've been scum only once, and that was technically in a different game (for real, maybe this is subjective but I think ONUW and mafia are very different games despite having some mechanics in common).

On a side note: I kind of don't feel great about judging people in this game based on information from outside it? I feel like those sorts of things really shouldn't be admissible as evidence and the only things that should really be factoring into judgments here are 1.) things that happen in the thread and 2.) things night actions reveal. Granted, this game pre-dates the hell out of me playing it, so maybe citing evidence outside those avenues is considered perfectly valid. I don't know. Ultimately all I know is I have personal misgivings against it. (For that reason, I can't comfortably put any stock in testimony that someone seems innocent because the person giving it knows them, knows how they are outside the game. It just seems super hearsayish, even by the standards of this game.) I'm not gonna hold using outside evidence against anyone else.

So anyway, about voting. I'm still going to abstain from doing so this time around. I'll admit, part of me initially wanted to vote Espurr, solely because I sympathized at the time. I get it. I get feeling overburdened and needing to maybe bail. I've felt the same thing at times, honestly; at this point, I could take or leave surviving in this game. The only reason I'm defending myself at all is because I'd feel selfish for bailing**, given my role. (Though I guess if I am lynched and shown to be innocent as a result, that's potentially useful information. I don't know. All I'm sure of is, I don't feel comfortable actually asking to be lynched.)

But in wake of SparklingEspeon making it clear that it's honestly not that much of a burden after all, I don't want to vote Espurr out. If that's a legit inforole, that's too valuable to remove. We need information, even if it all still just boils down to "to trust or not to trust".

That said, though, in the interest of honesty... I'm not entirely convinced she's town. If there really are two doctors, then the fact that I guarded her on night 0 and there was no nightkill doesn't guarantee her innocence, at least not from my perspective. The mafia could've targeted someone else, whom the other doctor could've protected, which would've yielded the same result: no nightkill.

Hopefully Espurr really is innocent. Hopefully we're not setting ourselves up for mafia misdirection.

(Even remotely suggesting that Espurr might not be innocent is probably making me look guilty as hell, but. Damned if I do, damned if I don't, at this point. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯)

*That's "most of us" because there's still the possibility that there's still a town cop
**What I'm feeling only applies to me. I don't think it's selfish for anyone else to bow out.
 

Namohysip

Dragon Enthusiast
Staff
Partners
  1. flygon
  2. charizard
  3. milotic
  4. zoroark-soda
  5. sceptile
  6. marowak
  7. jirachi
  8. meganium
And I have to admit that when he confessed to being an odd-numbered vigilante my first reaction was “well ain’t that convenient”. I don’t know, if that's a thing someone tell me, but it is very convenient.

As someone mentioned before, odd-numbered and even-numbered modifiers to powerful roles are a thing. Vigilante is apparently a very controversial role because it goes against the power of the town's majority rule. That, combined with the fact that this is an rp game and we probably want it to last a little while, makes nerfing a killing role reasonable. And it's different from Dragonfree's because mine isn't a "flip a coin" chance of working or whatever (which I personally don't care for) and is instead a deterministic "yes then no"

Namohysip claims to be a vigilante but also hasn't said actions.

I've stated my actions -- that I took none. The only night I was allowed to do anything was Night 1, and I chose not to because I was convinced that randomly swinging my banhammer into the dark was a bad idea. If I was mafia, it'd be a pretty bonehead move of me to say "I'm someone who can kill, also, I didn't kill anyone, and also, I can only do it last night, not tonight." My role is doing nothing but cast suspicion on me, whether I said it or not.

If we shoot dawningwinds, and she ends up being innocent
We end up losing a switcher. Which, while it can be useful, I feel like it's less useful than a doctor. Again, especially if sike ends up being the only doctor.

I actually hadn't considered this. Hmm... I'll need to mull this over. Still waiting on a Sike repl--aaaand ninja'd.

I should also add that I'm still not totally convinced of Namo's innocence, but like my feelings on Starlight, I don't think he's the best person to lynch right now. Again, like I mentioned last night, his roleclaim reminds me of Dragonfree's false claim from last year

See above for what I mentioned about why I'd hope my claim isn't the same as Dragonfree's false claim, among other things. And I think thre were other arguments in my favor as well for why claiming vigil isn't the best choice if I had free reign over what kind of role I'd've wanted.

Now, to look over what Sike said...

Hmm. I suppose it's reasonable that there would be no real way to defend the circumstances. But it was an INCREDIBLY lucky or well-aimed strike if a healer was so specifically blocked in that way...

Right now, I'm flipping between Sike and DW.

Sike: The chance of being town is so, so, so small, but if it's true, we had a perfectly aimed roleblock.
DW: After mulling it all over, this one is also possible to be innocent, but similarly slim... and the role is also weaker compared to a doctor. But too many docs can lead to a potential healkill... Hrgh. I'm going to look over my scenario again and see what's going on there.
 

Tanuki

Friend of All Chu
Location
Rhyme City
Pronouns
He/him/his
But too many docs can lead to a potential healkill.
We aren’t docs, though, we’re protectors. And people have mentioned that there were heal overlaps last game where the protected didn’t die. Two protectors can only be good for us.
 

kyeugh

you gotta feel your lines
Staff
Pronouns
she/her
Partners
  1. farfetchd-galar
  2. gfetchd-kyeugh
  3. onion-san
  4. farfetchd
  5. farfetchd
But it was an INCREDIBLY lucky or well-aimed strike if a healer was so specifically blocked in that way...
i honestly don’t really think it’s that incredibly lucky? if the roleblocker is scum which seems to be the most likely case, they’re not going to hit their kill target and they’re not going to hit themselves, so the odds are like 1/10. that seems perfectly plausible to me
 

elyvorg

somewhat backwards
Pronouns
she/they
Partners
  1. grovyle
Nnnnnngh. I know a mafia-Sike would also say roughly the same thing in this position, but I even though I started to think it was maybe possible earlier, I still don't think Sike is lying here.

But I also don't even necessarily want to change my vote to DawningWinds, who seems the next most likely based on the evidence, because I don't think they're that likely to be it either if it's not Sike.

And if we don't lynch Sike then we're never going to know for sure and get the confirmation of either mafia roleblocker or serious suspicion on DawningWinds. But if we do we might just be mostly killing a doctor.

And the other problem is, Tefiren doesn't give a damn about what Ntairow just said. He still wants to get rid of her just because the logic says it's most likely to be her. So on the one hand, if this were just me, I'd want to change my vote away from Sike on principle because I really want to act on my hunch that it really isn't them, but on the other hand, on principle I want to stick to this being an RP game and go with what my character would do so long as it isn't an obviously bad play. Aaaaa.
 

kyeugh

you gotta feel your lines
Staff
Pronouns
she/her
Partners
  1. farfetchd-galar
  2. gfetchd-kyeugh
  3. onion-san
  4. farfetchd
  5. farfetchd
Nnnnnngh. I know a mafia-Sike would also say roughly the same thing in this position, but I even though I started to think it was maybe possible earlier, I still don't think Sike is lying here.

But I also don't even necessarily want to change my vote to DawningWinds, who seems the next most likely based on the evidence, because I don't think they're that likely to be it either if it's not Sike.

And if we don't lynch Sike then we're never going to know for sure and get the confirmation of either mafia roleblocker or serious suspicion on DawningWinds. But if we do we might just be mostly killing a doctor.
this is where i’m at. how do you feel about composing a list of people you DON’T feel good about and firing randomly in there, like i’ve been suggesting? i feel like the odds of hitting scum can’t be much worse this way than they would be between sike/dw, and it allows us to leave them alone for the time being until we can puzzle it out a bit better. it’s a bit less directed, but...
 

kyeugh

you gotta feel your lines
Staff
Pronouns
she/her
Partners
  1. farfetchd-galar
  2. gfetchd-kyeugh
  3. onion-san
  4. farfetchd
  5. farfetchd
this is where i’m at. how do you feel about composing a list of people you DON’T feel good about and firing randomly in there, like i’ve been suggesting? i feel like the odds of hitting scum can’t be much worse this way than they would be between sike/dw, and it allows us to leave them alone for the time being until we can puzzle it out a bit better. it’s a bit less directed, but...
* don’t EXPLICITLY feel good about, ftr
 

windskull

Bidoof Fan
Staff
Partners
  1. sneasel-nip
  2. bidoof
  3. absol
  4. kirlia
  5. windskull-bidoof
  6. little-guy-windskull
  7. purugly
  8. mawile
  9. manectric
Tanuki, you have to remember that last years game doesn't necessarily apply here. (that said, I feel like negrek would have said something if there was a heal clash mechanic in this game, but I haven't played enough mafia to know for sure if mentioning something like that is the standard.)

That said, after reading Sike's post I'm sticking with my vote for dw. I just don't feel comfortable aiming at what could potentially be our only doctor. Tanuki Is probably being truthful, but... IDK. Risk versus reward for lynching sike just feels too risky to me.
 
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