[INNOCENTS WIN] First Anniversary Fanfic Mafia - Game Thread

[Tanuki]

“would i know if i got switched”

But that's not the question. The question was

If you are targeting someone who got switched, your results will not tell you this.

ie, from the watcher's perspective... but Dawning's supposed to be the switcher.

 

[kyeugh]

No, I can ask the host what my role does. I asked if it tells people that their target changed. It doesn't.

 

[DawningWinds]

from the watcher's perspective... but Dawning's supposed to be the switcher.

That quote applied to everyone (didn't clarify that well and that's totally my fault there), not just the watcher. Nobody will know if their target got switched by me unless I tell them or they're killing and the kill didn't kill who it was supposed to.

 

[Namohysip]

I don't think it's unreasonable to ask about basic game mechanics, for what it's worth...

But Tanuki, I don't really agree with your DW jab just yet--for voting, at least. While, yes, DW seems to be very suspicious based on the scenario I had outlined, it's a little less guaranteed in my eyes compared to Sike's very clear lie for what Espurr had said.

And also, er, Espeon kinda wants to drop... I dunno. It doesn't feel right to force her to do another night action.

 

[elyvorg]

okay whoops guess my brain doesn't want me to go to sleep it wants me to keep thinking about this game, rip my sleep schedule

in other news, what the hap is fuckening

But first, before even getting into that, I'd just like to draw everyone's attention to something that was still happening before Espurr roleclaimed and made us all very confused:

So, I’m gonna elaborate a bit on this because I worded it poorly. The nature of all the evidence against Namo leads me to believe he’s innocent, but looks very guilty. I tried to explain both scenarios and failed to enunciate my actual position.

Namo is probably innocent, but looks extremely guilty. Even his proclaimed role is suspicious because it could easily be a reworded Mafia role. He seems more like an unfortunate victim of chance the mafia are using as an easy scapegoat. This is why I voted to jail who I did; Elyvorg seems to be doing exactly that.

Tanuki voted for me earlier, apparently on the basis that I had been gunning to lynch Namo this entire time, when I had literally not mentioned any suspicion on Namo until the post in which I voted, nor was I the first one to vote for them. I pointed this out. He ignored me. I pointed out that he'd ignored me. He continued to not acknowledge his bizarre vote on me at all (while still posting about other things, so he was definitely still reading the thread). And later, in this post quoted here, he continues to insist that it totally makes sense for him to be voting for me on the basis of something I never even did, a fact which should have been even clearer at that point, as I had unvoted after Namo's roleclaim.

I'm not bothered at this because it's me he voted for, but because his basis for voting was nonexistent and he repeatedly refused to acknowledge this after I tried to point it out and after it should have become even more obviously apparent. I am side-eyeing the ever-living fuck out of this and would be doing so equally as strongly if it was not me but someone else in my position that he had voted for and behaved in that same way about. I just wanted to get that out there. It's a thing.


But for right now, we should probably focus on the Espeon matter.

...See, what bothers me is that while this definitely makes it look like Sike must have been lying about protecting Chibi, which is why Espeon only saw DawningWinds there, I still don't think Sike's roleclaim was a lie. The way they went about claiming seemed too accidental and fumbling and genuine to me, not at all like something a mafia member who'd planned to roleclaim doctor once the day began would have done.

...And I'd want to say that instead maybe Espeon is lying and decided to make her last bit of information she gives us before leaving the game be something that'll make us want to lynch a useful townie, but her roleclaim also reads to me as genuinely confused and fumbling.

Is it possible that a roleblocker blocked Sike last night, and that's why Sike wasn't seen near Chibi (/actually qva in the end), because they didn't protect anyone at all? Particularly if it was a mafia roleblocker, in which case a hypothetical mafia-killer DawningWinds would be confident that this would make Sike look super guilty.

I don't know, I realise this is based entirely on my gut instinct that Sike isn't lying, and yet here we are with actual concrete evidence. Fffffff concrete proofs from roleclaims were supposed to be the playstyle I leaned towards more than the suspecting/believing in people based on hunches, what am I doing. Gonna hold off on voting for now because aaaaaa. I think I would at least like to hear from Sike before deciding anything.

 

[kyeugh]

they asked a pretty basic question about how their own role works, it really isn’t weird at all

 

[kyeugh]

elyvorg: i am also strongly side-eyeing it, among other things, but i just don’t really know how to reconcile that with his uncontested roleclaim... unless there’s actually only one doctor and we’re just being too accepting of the idea of two? negrek did make sure to say that we shouldn’t make assumptions from the last game. idk, it’s a shaky road to go down, but also the claim is the only thing stopping me from voting the hell out of tanuki, so maybe it needs closer consideration.

sidenote, this is very weak but sike’s play somehow reminds me of her play in the werewolf game where she was scum.

 

[DawningWinds]

Is it possible that a roleblocker blocked Sike last night

I honestly didn't think of that.

Correction to my previous giant bold thing: If Sike and Espy are both telling the truth, there has to be a roleblocker who blocked Sike. Is there a town roleblocker who can claim this? (Every roleblocker I've ever seen has been Mafia but worth asking anyway.)

 

[Namohysip]

Is it possible that a roleblocker blocked Sike last night, and that's why Sike wasn't seen near Chibi

I... hadn't considered that. But it requires them knowing specifically to target Sike, which seems too lucky for me to want to put into consideration if I want to take a gamble, which this will be, albeit with good odds.

--

My opinion still stands that we should get rid of Espurr for the following reasons:

1. If Espurr is seen as innocent, we can at least trust that what she said was true. We will be able to solidify that information, and therefore my scenarios, aside from extreme fringe perfect-storm voting that is too unlikely for me to consider.

2. Espeon literally asked to bail, and modkill isn't an option.

 

[elyvorg]

elyvorg: i am also strongly side-eyeing it, among other things, but i just don’t really know how to reconcile that with his uncontested roleclaim... unless there’s actually only one doctor and we’re just being too accepting of the idea of two? negrek did make sure to say that we shouldn’t make assumptions from the last game. idk, it’s a shaky road to go down, but also the claim is the only thing stopping me from voting the hell out of tanuki, so maybe it needs closer consideration.

sidenote, this is very weak but sike’s play somehow reminds me of her play in the werewolf game where she was scum.

Yeah, Tanuki's claim is solid not because he says he's a second doctor, but because he says he's a backup, and the real backup should have called him out if this is a lie. (Unless there just isn't one in the game, or it was actually Chibi, but that's a hell of a gamble to take.) Which is also why I'm not immediately voting him. But, ghhh. We should look into this more later when we're not working on something we have more solid evidence for.

Hm, I guess it helps to know that Sike's claim possibly reminds you of the behaviour of mafia-Sike in another game you played. I've only really seen their playstyle from last year's game here, in which they were innocent, so I can't really judge based on that. Maybe my judgement of them here is too naive of me. Would still like to hear from them first before deciding.

 

[Tanuki]

What qva said about how if Namo is so suspicious that he's useful to the mafia alive even if he's innocent, that means we should lynch him, not keep him alive.

something I never even did, a fact which should have been even clearer at that point, as I had unvoted after Namo's roleclaim.

aight, I'm just gonna come clean and say I'm an idiot here. I didn't double check that beyond the second quote here, which... yeah, dumb, I know. Essentially, it was a shot in the dark to misdirect away from someone I thought was innocent and maybe incite a mafia into overplaying their hand. At this point, I think the Mafia's going to keep me alive because I'm more of a detriment to the town than they could ever dream to be.

 

[kyeugh]

My opinion still stands that we should get rid of Espurr for the following reasons:

1. If Espurr is seen as innocent, we can at least trust that what she said was true. We will be able to solidify that information, and therefore my scenarios, aside from extreme fringe perfect-storm voting that is too unlikely for me to consider.

2. Espeon literally asked to bail, and modkill isn't an option.

hard disagree, there is no reason whatsoever to lynch someone you believe is town. it doesn’t inconvenience her to stay in the game even if she isn’t playing it, we don’t even get useful information out of it, and it kills a townie (moving the mafia closer to victory) who will probably not get nightkilled because she’s not even playing and thus poses no threat to scum

the fact that you keep suggesting this lowkey makes me want to vote for you again

 

[Tanuki]

the fact that you keep suggesting this lowkey makes me want to vote for you again

qva Espeon is asking us to lynch her because she wants to get out of the game. If we keep her alive, she'll have to do another action which she doesn't want to do while she's already stressed from irl.

 

[kyeugh]

qva Espeon is asking us to lynch her because she wants to get out of the game. If we keep her alive, she'll have to do another action which she doesn't want to do while she's already stressed from irl.

she doesn’t have to do the action, she can just not. lynching her is worse than useless, it’s BAD for town

 

[Tanuki]

she doesn’t have to do the action, she can just not. lynching her is worse than useless, it’s BAD for town

Okay, that's fine, but Namo doing what Espeon asked us to isn't suspicious.

 

[kyeugh]

Okay, that's fine, but Namo doing what Espeon asked us to isn't suspicious.

yes, it is.
“i’m town. please kill”
“ok! i believe you and we should do this”
do you really not see how this is bad?

 

[Namohysip]

the fact that you keep suggesting this lowkey makes me want to vote for you again

Okay... Look. I was just trying to respect Espeon's wish. For all we know this is some elaborate mafia ploy for us to NOT lynch her, and rely on false info for up to two more rounds!

My gut is telling me that Espeon is absolutely telling the truth, but still, this isn't really a game thing, just... Ugh. Forget it. I'm sick of being suspected for trying to be nice beyond the game. Do what you want.

There's talk about not lynching Espy anyway and just keep it as a safe kill later if we have zero information or something. We'll probably gain the same info if we lynch Sike or DW. Go for it.

 

[Tanuki]

yes, it is.
“i’m town. please kill”
“ok! i believe you and we should do this”
do you really not see how this is bad?

I can very easily see how what you described is bad, yes, and I can see how you think that's the current situation... but it's not. She talked in discord about how she wanted to just drop all her info and drop out. Then, Chibi suggested we vote her out so we don't have to lose two players in one day while also confirming her claims. What he's doing is out of compassion, not opportunity.

This all happened on discord, so I get that you see it like you do, but considering how this actually developed, I'm not seeing this as maliciously opportunistic at all.

 

[Tanuki]

Another factor to consider about DW and Sike's initial claims is how they clear qva's name... this could all have been a really clever ploy to make all three mafia look innocent, and with how hard qva's gunning for Namo over a decision made from compassion, I'd almost believe it.

 

[elyvorg]

aight, I'm just gonna come clean and say I'm an idiot here. I didn't double check that beyond the second quote here, which... yeah, dumb, I know. Essentially, it was a shot in the dark to misdirect away from someone I thought was innocent and maybe incite a mafia into overplaying their hand. At this point, I think the Mafia's going to keep me alive because I'm more of a detriment to the town than they could ever dream to be.

I don't understand what you mean by "didn't double check that beyond the second quote here". Didn't double check what? Why is my second quote there relevant?

Whatever you meant by that first part, though, I think I understand the rest of what you're trying to say - and I am still super leery of the claim that you voted me for no good reason to try and pressure me because you thought Namo was innocent, considering that you were by far the most adamant at that point in time that Namo was definitely guilty. And now you're saying the mafia won't want to kill you, even though the whole idea behind your plan to keep the supposedly-super-guilty Namo alive was to deter the mafia from trying to kill you because as a claimed doctor you're a high-priority target. So that's also kinda sus.