[INNOCENTS WIN] First Anniversary Fanfic Mafia - Game Thread

[Sike Saner]

Oof. Did not consider that.

Well, this definitely paints using one of the alphabetical setups as a really bad idea. Using the other one would still afford us the option of protecting the most healworthy targets in each of our groups, though.

Still, hmm. Not sure how I feel about this option now. Any further opinions on the matter would be welcome.

 

[elyvorg]

[["By the way, this alphabet thing... it sounds cool in theory but I'm not so sure it's a great idea." Dave frowned, rubbing his forehead. "Look, yeah, this'd make sense if two people healing the same person could kill them or something. But otherwise? Yeah, I guess the heal is technically wasted if they both heal the same person, and guaranteeing two different people get healed would be great against a mafia firing off shots at random. But they're not, and giving the mafia more information on who may be healed and preventing healers from going for the most healworthy targets is a little dubious. In particular, if the grouping has both of the healers themselves in the same group, like one of the possible alphabetical groupings? Then, assuming the healers can't heal themselves, they know that the healer who's healing within that group is going to be unprotected. Free doctor they can kill. That's a bad idea."]]

Very good point. I chipped in on how to best arrange the split-heal thing without actually being sure if it was even a good idea, and this puts the vague hang-ups I was having over it into words better than I could.

I also remembered the possibility that there's a mafia roleblocker, which, if there is one, means that healers announcing even just their pool of targets gives the mafia an easy pass to kill whoever they want just by roleblocking the relevant healer.

 

[Sike Saner]

Although, wait.

In particular, if the grouping has both of the healers themselves in the same group, like one of the possible alphabetical groupings? Then, assuming the healers can't heal themselves, they know that the healer who's healing within that group is going to be unprotected. Free doctor they can kill. That's a bad idea."]]

This assumes that not only can we not heal ourselves, we can't heal each other, either.

That said...

I also remembered the possibility that there's a mafia roleblocker, which, if there is one, means that healers announcing even just their pool of targets gives the mafia an easy pass to kill whoever they want just by roleblocking the relevant healer.

It does seem prudent to keep as much guesswork in the equation where the mafia's concerned. There's another tick against assigned pools, then.

 

[NonAnalogue]

-- Conversation initiated with WitchesBlue [FORTUNATA, FIAMETTA] --

[WB] honestly i kinda feel like were in a bind now that both healers have claimed
[WB] like even if they commit to healing *only* each other
[WB] makin some kinda invincibility shield
[WB] a barrier of doctor
[WB] just healthcare providers throwin themselves all over each other to heal each other
[WB] all it takes is the mafia havin some kinda swappin or blockin or something
[WB] and well be up a river
[WB] it kinda seems to me like we oughta assume the mafia are gonna aim at the healers from here on
[WB] and anyone with the power to do so can put their efforts towards disruptin that
[WB] swappin healers with other people to throw things off
[WB] make the mafia think twice about takin potshots at the healers
[WB] especially if it means they might accidentally hit one of their own
[WB] unless we like double blind em
[WB] or triple blind em
[WB] goddess i do not know how yall do this
[WB] i can barely think one step ahead of people
[WB] let alone three or four

 

[Sike Saner]

(Might as well mention it here, too: I will most likely not be posting in this thread during today's voice chat since I'm unable to concentrate on writing of any kind while people are talking. And I don't want to silence that chat at any point since it's a special event.)

 

[Tanuki]

Is it against the rules for us to just dm each other?

 

[Dragonfree]

This assumes that not only can we not heal ourselves, we can't heal each other, either.

It doesn't assume that! If doctors A and B are both in group X, and we predetermine that doctor A heals someone in group X and doctor B heals someone in group Y, then doctor A can heal doctor B, but doctor B can't heal doctor A - hence, the mafia can safely go for doctor A.

I also remembered the possibility that there's a mafia roleblocker, which, if there is one, means that healers announcing even just their pool of targets gives the mafia an easy pass to kill whoever they want just by roleblocking the relevant healer.

And yeah, I wasn't thinking about this but that's extra reason the alphabetical thing is not a good idea - if they've got a roleblocker all they have to do is disable the doctor assigned to the target they want.

With the roleblocker consideration added, I'm actually starting to think Namo suggesting this really could have been a subtle mafia ploy to achieve exactly that? Because God, would that make their job way easier. Wouldn't blame someone for just not realizing the potential for leaving one of the doctors guaranteed unprotected, but the roleblocker thing is big and a system like this is exactly what a mafia with a roleblocker would want.

 

[Dragonfree]

Is it against the rules for us to just dm each other?

Yes, communicating about the game outside the game thread is not allowed. That's part of the game.

 

[Tanuki]

Yes, communicating about the game outside the game thread is not allowed. That's part of the game.

Oh my bad, sorry

 

[Tanuki]

[[“I ain’t tellin’ no one who I’m savin’. This ain’t nine ball; ain’t gotsta call nothin’,” Desper declared. Them’s’s’m foolhardy sumsas if they thought he’d trust’em after so much nothin’. He needed to clear his head, so he gulped a few from his bottle.

‘T’wa’n’t a drop ‘pleted. “Well, prais’Elijah, th’oil’s gonna last the famine!” With the drink came clarity. Cloudy clarity, but clarity nonetheless. “I was mistaken. Seems Scales was the cue’nstead‘a the ball. H’wever, he still pushed f’r hangin’ more’n a guilty mon’d let ‘mself.

“Sure, s’ppose’e did change his tune wit’the wind, but’s as th’Orientals say, Carpet Dee-em—hold on now.” His eyes shot to the wannabe dragon. “Izzat how ya gotcher name, Sours? ‘S’dorable. Wh’I’d hug ya’f it didn’t mean y’d scorch me like a pig’n a poke pit.”

His head shook, seemingly of its own volition. Mayhaps he’d had too much sauce. That’d never stopped him afore, but these were ‘xtenuatin’ circumstances... ‘course those ne’er stopped him afore either. Quite a quandry. He’d need some thinkin’ juice for it.

Truce. That’s what the juice told ‘im. He ambled over to Diyem wit’ more steady a gate’n usual’n offered his drink to the ‘Zard. “Might we bury this hatchet’f ours? I’ll admit, I made the head’n the handle, but I hopes y’gots it in ya t’forgive me.”]]

[[

"In effect, nothing," Diyem said simply to Nip. "We know nothing about who was targeted, why, who blocked them, and so on. We do not even know what powers are in play, how many people here have powers, or even if there may be individuals who have the same powers. And until someone adds to that pool of knowledge... That is all we will ever know."

Diyem closed his eyes. "If we know nothing, then I suggest we take a risk and disturb the waters. We must consider the possibility that we eliminate someone now, today: the knowledge gained from how everyone reacts to this process is all we can do."

Opening them, Diyem scanned the crowd with his dim, blue eyes.

"Do we have any objections?"

]]

OOC/Translation: Yeah, Namo started it, but I still think because of how long he pushed it that he’s probably innocent. Also, I think risking protecting the same person twice is better than risking the mafia knowing who we will and won’t protect. They already know who to block if they can block, so any more info’s a bad idea.

And just a worldbuilding aside, Desper’s drinking a lot, but it’s only because raichu have supernatural livers in my world. Electric types, high heartbeat, that kinda pseudoscience, so that’s why he’s still comprehensible. Well... as comprehensible as he was before.

The Elijah thing is a reference to the Bible story where Elijah (I think it was that prophet, anyway, the old testament has a lot of those) gave a widow who fed him unemptying jars of flour and oil for the duration of the famine. Oil is also a word for whiskey in cowboy speak. There are a lot of words for whiskey in cowboy speak. I think cowboys had a bit of a problem, but I’m getting off track. Point is, Desper thought that pun was clever, and I’m not one to disagree.

 

[Namohysip]

HI all, sorry for being quiet yesterday. Tanuki and others can vouch for me ooc that yesterday was my "day off" from all work related matters, and I was trying to have as much "me" time as I could on my vacation. I only get 10 days of them for the whole year. I'll try to be fully active for the rest of this round aside from the two hours I have for streaming.

Now then...

I'd like to hear more explanation from Namo on how much was RP'ing and how much wasn't.

Diyem's an angry ball of sad. Interpret any hostile malice he has to his personality and not mine. He hates Dave less for a reason.

[[

“I’gree we ain’t heard much from Tubs, ‘sides his showin’ off knowledge of th’alphabet. I do miss the days when Ol’ Sour Scales’d groan’n gripe at e’ry lil bump in his lynchin’ ideals. Tell me, who’s you itchin’ t’hang t’day?”

Diyem rolled his eyes wordlessly, listening to them all theorizing for now. He wasn't in the mood to speak up during the first portions of these talks, especially after he'd next to humiliated himself by getting at least three basic facts about this strange game wrong.

]]

I'm pretty sure Namo was the first person to bring up lynching yesterday?

Frankly I don't remember either, but it looks like people have already deduced that I was. I'll believe them, because I was coming into this game researching the game theory on best first moves in mafia... but then made the mistake of looking at theories for role-light games. You can look back at Day 1 to see my realization cycles there. I pressed hard because others were speaking with uncertain terms and didn't know them game themselves; when more savvy individuals came in and said "This is different for role-heavy games," that's when I backed down because, yeah, it was new information that dramatically changes the conclusion of optimal innocent play. I switched my tune because I realized my tune was wrong.

With the roleblocker consideration added, I'm actually starting to think Namo suggesting this really could have been a subtle mafia ploy to achieve exactly that?

See above.

[[

"A truce," Diyem repeated, narrowing his eyes at Desper. He didn't take the bottle, though he didn't break it, either. "I have no interest in forming truces when it's still a possibility, no matter how small, that you may be lying. You cannot prove your role, and nobody else has proven it, either. It is all one big unknown." He raised his head. "I do not appreciate being accused for something I had already admitted being wrong about. I would rather be suspected for the fact that I have not yet claimed my role... Which I have no plans to do."

He walked. "I am not a doctor. I will say that much. I cannot counter-claim having any role that had already been said. I do feel, however, that the mafia would be more paranoid if I did not reveal my role than if I did. Perhaps I will buy you time by having them squirm in their flesh." He glanced at the group, giving them an amused, wry smile. There was no joy in his eyes. "Regardless, if the mafia wish to play with the fear of the unknown, then so will I. What am I capable of? Am I worse, or better than ridding a doctor? A switcher? The backup?"

"I also suggest we investigate the quieter individuals. I'm not comfortable with those who are constantly accusing me in particular. It's strange, particularly when a conclusion had already been made that I was speaking out of a mistaken premise, and when I realized that, I rectified myself. To revisit an old topic just to cast a shadow over me is, in itself... annoying."

]]

tl;dr: I'm claiming to NOT be a doctor or bus driver or any other role that had been revealed by other players so far. However, I refuse to state what I am, only that the mafia may want to worry about me... or not.

And yeah, kinda sus that an old and settled topic is being revisited the second I go quiet. Part of that is on me for, y'know, taking my day off--but still. C'mon now.

Oh, and as an aside, if anybody missed it in the discord, Espeon/Espurr is sort of on the fence about participating due to how hectic the chat is going. I think she's still planning to stick through, but I don't know whether she's innocent or not to begin with, so... I dunno. I'm not keen on voting her out because I have a vague sense she's innocent, but at the same time, we have almost no info from her to begin with.

Worse comes to worse, she can claim her role and any information she has, and then we vote her out, if she's super not feeling it. But that's just my proposal IF she's still feeling this way. @SparklingEspeon How're you feeling now that you had time to mull things over? Only about a day remains for this round, I think.

 

[kyeugh]

And yeah, kinda sus that an old and settled topic is being revisited the second I go quiet. Part of that is on me for, y'know, taking my day off--but still. C'mon now.

it’s not at all weird tbh, persephone was playing catch up and mentioned something that jumped out to her, and it generated discussion. the fact that you’re casting it as opportunistic actually makes me feel worse about you, i feel like your reaction to anything about yourself has been disproportionately hostile

 

[Tanuki]

[[Desper flicked his lips. “Take a note from yer gut’n soften up.” Drink refused, he took Diyem’s dose for him. “‘F y’wer’n’the monster’ve a fairy tale, yer bounty’d be posted yesterday.”

Th’oil had ‘m feelin’ dry, so he conjured up a waterwell. “Now, I get bein’ ‘fended at a thrown stone more’n any’un else.” His tail drew the well into his waiting mouth, plenty missing the mark to cool him off. He wiped off some excess and looked back at Diyem. “What I never done is toss it back. Yet, e’ry time you get ‘cused, y’cuse back. Ex one or nation don’t mean jailin’ som’n else.”

Another dose of water, and his throat was ready for its medicine. “And ‘course y’gots the best reason of all not to tell us y’r role. Course, I wouldn’t’a revealed m’own were’t not fer my bein’s’green. Diffe’nce’s I wouldn’t’ve said diddly.” Desper crossed his arms. “Y’only speak t’call y’self innocent’r som’n else guilty.”

Then, Desper let out a chuckle. “‘N’at’s the worst part. Ye’re too ‘spicious to convict. ‘F I was onna them, I’d leave you ‘live ‘til last to make you’bsorb all the s’picion like a sponge. S’how’s bout this.”

He tossed two plates up’n waited a spell before firin’ once’n hittin’m both. “Two bird’s’n’ one stone. We know one of us ‘tectors’re gonna get hit tonight. That’s just a fact. S’you’ll take our place. In’cent’re guilty, mafia don’t want you dead, so it’ll help our ever dwindlin’ chances.”]]

OOC/Translation: Okay, so, Namo is beyond suspicious in every way to the point I feel like he wouldn’t be near this, um... well, if he didn’t want us to suspect him, I feel like he’d be a bit more cautious. But he’s also being nothing but cautious.

Everything he does is to clear his name or muddy someone else’s. He’s super suspicious, and everyone knows it, but that’s why we shouldn’t kill him. Whether he’s innocent or guilty, he’s an asset to the mafia. They can make him look guilty easily at this point, so they don’t want him dead.

I suggest we switch and protect him between me and Sike. That way, if the Mafia goes for one of us, they’ll kill him. If they go for him, me or Sike will be protected. This decreases the chances of the Mafia killing a protector and increases the chances of them killing an asset of theirs whether he’s innocent or not.

 

[Tanuki]

Oh, I forgot to say, but the opportunistic attack thought was thanks to qva’s post. Wanted to cite my source so it didn’t look like I was taking credit. I always hated the kid in class who said my answer but louder.

 

[kyeugh]

OOC/Translation: Okay, so, Namo is beyond suspicious in every way to the point I feel like he wouldn’t be near this, um... well, if he didn’t want us to suspect him, I feel like he’d be a bit more cautious. But he’s also being nothing but cautious.

Everything he does is to clear his name or muddy someone else’s. He’s super suspicious, and everyone knows it, but that’s why we shouldn’t kill him. Whether he’s innocent or guilty, he’s an asset to the mafia. They can make him look guilty easily at this point, so they don’t want him dead.

[[ Lauchs nodded slowly at the strange little raichu. “Your dialect escapes me,” he admitted, “but from what I gather of your words... I understand what you’re saying, but must disagree on several fronts. For one thing, I don’t think the charizard is implausibly suspicious. He could be a floundering scoundrel, or he might be edgy yet innocent. I am leaning toward the former myself, purely on gut feeling, I regret to inform... But for the other matter, even if he was acting implausibly suspiciously, I do not think that’s a good reason to rule him out. That would, after all, be a classic blunder, would it not? In the absence of other leads, I believe it is the best we have.

“With that said, I shall again be the first to place a formal vote this day, and it will be on Diyem. I have laid my case out as bare as I think I can—not based on certainty, I admit, but feelings are the best evidence we have at this time. I do not believe abstention is wise today, so barring further revelations, I behoove the pure among us to stand behind me.” He spoke confidently, but his expression betrayed his unease. “Most grim indeed...” ]]

if you genuinely believe namo is either mafia or useful to the mafia, tanuki, then i think the wisest thing we can do is figure out his flip to sort his alignment. if he’s town, it’s unfortunate but also a loose end tied up that the mafia can no longer exploit. if he isn’t... well. imo we must lynch someone today; that lynch should have as much utility as possible. if you are on the fence then i invite you to suggest a more useful lynch, but i don’t feel there is one at this time personally.

 

[kyeugh]

also: the switching plan is clever but i think it assumes too much of the mafia. if they have a roleblocker or a strongman it falls through. can’t think of a better time to spend a strongman charge than when the town’s night plan is out in the open and tampering with it would incriminate someone. i think it’s better to preserve what secrecy we can, and use our lynch as productively as possible.

 

[Dragonfree]

See above.

What do you mean, see above? None of what you just said was relevant to my concern (which had nothing to do with you wanting to lynch D1; I don't think that was suspicious at all).

Everything he does is to clear his name or muddy someone else’s. He’s super suspicious, and everyone knows it, but that’s why we shouldn’t kill him. Whether he’s innocent or guilty, he’s an asset to the mafia. They can make him look guilty easily at this point, so they don’t want him dead.

I suggest we switch and protect him between me and Sike. That way, if the Mafia goes for one of us, they’ll kill him. If they go for him, me or Sike will be protected. This decreases the chances of the Mafia killing a protector and increases the chances of them killing an asset of theirs whether he’s innocent or not.

[[Dave squinted at the Raichu. "I'm sorry, you think he's super fucking suspicious and an asset to the mafia whether he's innocent or guilty, and therefore we should not jail him and instead do some convoluted scheme where the mafia might kill him instead?

"Anyway, that alphabet-based doctor plan was some dodgy shit and he sure seems pretty on the defensive right now, so sure, let's jail Diyem, see what happens."]]

I'm not 100% convinced Namo is mafia at this stage (again, I don't think it's alignment-indicative at all that he wanted to lynch on D1, which really is common wisdom), but I agree with qva that he is reacting pretty harshly to being suspected, and it's worth putting more pressure on him at the very least.

 

[Tanuki]

[["Y'all all talkin' like I ain't th'only'un speakin' normal," Desper grumbled. "If'n we get rid of him, the Mafia's down a prospect, sure, but that don't mean we can't use'm t'our benefit."]]

OOC: I get what you're saying, and I'm pretty sure he's guilty, too, but this way he's more valuable to us alive than dead. Even if they did use a roleblocker or a strongman, who would they use it on? They don't even know if everyone's actually going to cooperate, who's protecting who, all that. It introduces a bunch of variables into two targets that are currently very high priority. They're probably going to go for me or Sike tonight unless we make it disadvantageous for them to do so.

Forcing them to risk an asset at least helps our chances of keeping the protectors alive. Well, it's important to note we're still only claimed protectors thus far, but, I mean, these would be very stupid lies.

Also, a factor of this plan is whether or not we do it at all. If you wanna go along with it, if you don't, keep it to yourself. Let's give them as little info as possible.

 

[DawningWinds]

Vote: Namohysip
Reasons stated by others, I don't feel like restating them.

 

[elyvorg]

[[The leek-duck had been obviously wrong about Chibi yesterday, but this time he was making more sense. And he definitely wasn't one of Them, so he couldn't be trying to trick everyone.

"The fiery one"]] (Diyem, Tefiren, names) [["really hasn't been making much sense," Tefiren agreed. "He's been talking a lot, but mostly he's been wrong about things or just not saying anything useful. He could be one of Them trying to make us think he's helpful but not actually helping. And even if he isn't one of Them, getting rid of him won't matter much, because he hasn't been helping."

He turned to the Raichu as he tried to lay out some kind of plan for tonight. "What are you doing!?" he hissed, agreeing with what the duck had said there, too. "We can't just go telling Them what tricks we're going to use tonight! It won't work at all if They're expecting it!"

He rolled his eyes in exasperation. Some of the people in this game, Tefiren had no idea how they'd managed to even avoid Them up to this point at all.
]]

(that last internal comment of his is not about the mafia "game", don't mind him.)

What qva said about how if Namo is so suspicious that he's useful to the mafia alive even if he's innocent, that means we should lynch him, not keep him alive.

Since qva is basically confirmed innocent, I also feel safe about her having cast the first vote here; this means there's no chance this is a mafia trying to push a mislynch.

For what it's worth, I'm not sure precisely how outright suspicious I think Namo's been. But I still can't decide whether or not I think they're an innocent trying to help but being mistaken and misplaying a lot, or a mafia trying to seem helpful while not actually contributing much and being slightly too defensive. And considering that I've been feeling more and more secure about everyone else who's spoken a lot the more I've been hearing from them, but I still don't feel any better about Namo by now, I guess that counts for something. Like the others, still not convinced they're mafia or anything, but I do think it's at least more likely than it is for a lot of the other candidates at this point, and that's all we've got to go on right now.