[COMPLETE] Humble Vale Mafia

[Sinderella]

i think it’s fine to keep an open mind and we should all be doing that, but i don’t think shutting down speculation because “the setup is wacky and it could be anything” is really that—in fact i’d say it’s the opposite, and casting shade on people for making fairly reasonable assumptions about the game (regardless of whether you agree with their particular theory) has me downright side-eyeing you. like, dw disagrees with uA too, but they’re disagreeing with the conclusion, not saying that the mere suggestion that a hostile third party might exist is scummy.

ultimately that kind of play comes down to getting people to second-guess any information or preconceived understandings of how the game works, which makes it completely impossible to solve and denies town the ability to meaningfully discuss the game. i understand that you’re not going in on them super hard or anything but i’m not getting good vibes from that approach.

[[Huh? I never said that Jackie saying “a third hostile party might exist” was scummy, I was just saying I was caught on that finite way they rolled with that idea. I’m by no means trying to tunnel Jackie, I’m just speculating, albeit maybe a little too aggressively. I don’t have enough to cast vote on anybody right now, honestly.]]

 

[Bluwiikoon]

[[Vote log so far!

DawningWinds votes kyeugh. (#182)
Equitial votes kyeugh. (#206)
Equitial unvotes kyeugh. (#217)
DawningWinds unvotes kyeugh. (#233)
(#) DawningWinds votes unrepentantAuthor. (#233)

If I miss any, feel free to shout! There is still plenty of time to vote and discuss - an estimated 28 hours and 20 minutes. DAY 1 threadmark has a countdown timer.]]

 

[Bluwiikoon]

[[Also, for the sake of clarification in-thread - the naughty jar has no mechanical effect on the game.]]

 

[kyeugh]

I never said that Jackie saying “a third hostile party might exist” was scummy, I was just saying I was caught on that finite way they rolled with that idea.

the distinction between these two things seems irrelevant to me. the sentiment boils down to "it's not reasonable for you to make assumptions about the game," and if that's true then it's completely impossible to speculate or solve. framing the game in that way has a lot more utility for mafia than it does for town, and that's impacted my read on you. not irreversibly by any means, but i wanted to explain my thought process aloud.

 

[unrepentantAuthor]

[[Just caught a three hour nap all afternoon. Feel less like I'm gonna die. Don't feel like offering any more speculation, I'm afraid. But I feel like trying to guess at how two kills might correspond to the buddy system was a pretty reasonable contribution, which I already acknowledged was pure guesswork. It's not like we have many claims to go off yet.]]

 

[Equitial]

[[
For me personally, I was more put off by uA's seemingly strong assumption that Townies wouldn't be buddied with scum players. On my part, I've figured out why I assumed otherwise: since there's a specific win-con that you can succeed with your buddy, that suggests alignments wouldn't necessarily be grouped together.

Furthermore, I feel like there's a big danger if we decided to go with Jackie's theory: it encourages Town players to trust their partners implicitly--there's a very strong chance they're on your side. Which, I can't help but feel it's a lot safer to urge caution. Even for myself, I trust Pano so far, but I'm acting as though I could be wrong; for example, I didn't tell her I thought uA had a power role.

So, the things that bugged me about uA's theory: 1) it felt really strongly held; like idk if it was just me but uA felt really confident when they claimed this, 2) it goes against what I find intuitive based on the win-cons we've been given, and 3) if the theory was wrong, acting like it was right would help scum and hurt Town.
]]

 

[Equitial]

Even for myself, I trust Pano so far, but I'm acting as though I could be wrong; for example, I didn't tell her I thought uA had a power role.

no offense Buddy I still love ya <3<3<3<3<3<3

 

[unrepentantAuthor]

[[I think mostly I'm just pretty terrified of mixed alignment buddy systems and the effect that might have on balance. What if my buddy is an SK or on the scumteam and they're going to off me? In normal neighbour setups, the townie basically gets a free scumread. In this setup, a distributed scumteam can coordinate how they manipulate their buddies. I don't know how town fights that. Except complete openness, I guess? Jeez.]

[[Anyway, my 'by no means certain' qualifier clearly wasn't enough to indicate I was purely spitballing. If I was certain, I'd damn well say I was certain.]]

 

[Flyg0n]

After some long thought, Fry decides to visit everyone and sniff them, and see who smells nice (and if anyone gives him pats.). As he sniffs each one present, he makes a face.

:
1. Himself
2. Cat (Salem) - He thinks Salem said a weird thing, but they don't smell naughty yet.
3. Blueberry (Gen) - Seems normal! Very scared a lot
4. Rock (Steven/Pano) - A very quiet Tailless. He likes quiet ones
5. Mango (Rui/Yellow) - A very happy Tailless, he thinks for now she is nice.



:
6. Guzma: fry likes Guzma a lot, but he isn't sure if he's trusted yet. :(((
7. Hairy (AZ/Q): Fry has no idea what to make of this funny man
8. Bacon (Inke/Mademoiselle): Was very mean, but also spoke up about being attacked! Could they be very tough bad ones or good ones? Fry is still undecided.
9. CrazyFox (Fuze/Kora): Fry thinks this creature is very weird and he's not sure yet.
10. Human (Amy/Equi): Fry isn't sure. Equi said a lot of things but he hasn't decided yet if he likes this one.

:
11. Nameless (Dawning Winds): Fry isn't sure, but he didn't like the way they spoke, but he doesn't think they're bad yet. Fry intends to watch them.
12. Mr. Shouty (AbraPunk/Palkia): This weird creature shouted a lot! He's not sure but he's also not sure he trusts anyone yet. Fry will be watching them.

Fry finishes his rounds and clicks his teeth. He's quite uncertain so far however, since he's just met so many weird new beings, and it's hard to decide if they smell bad >:(>

He thinks he might change his mind later.

[[I think mostly I'm just pretty terrified of mixed alignment buddy systems and the effect that might have on balance. What if my buddy is an SK or on the scumteam and they're going to off me? In normal neighbour setups, the townie basically gets a free scumread. In this setup, a distributed scumteam can coordinate how they manipulate their buddies. I don't know how town fights that. Except complete openness, I guess? Jeez.]

[[Anyway, my 'by no means certain' qualifier clearly wasn't enough to indicate I was purely spitballing. If I was certain, I'd damn well say I was certain.]]

Fry remembers something he heard somewhere, how NiceSkeleton told him before this started that these buddies were not guaranteed to be friends. Or as some of the others liked to say, buddies would not always share an alignment.

 

[kyeugh]

For me personally, I was more put off by uA's seemingly strong assumption that Townies wouldn't be buddied with scum players. On my part, I've figured out why I assumed otherwise: since there's a specific win-con that you can succeed with your buddy, that suggests alignments wouldn't necessarily be grouped together.

yeah, this makes sense to me. it seems sort of redundant to have a separate buddy win condition when your normal win condition is sure to be the same as your buddy's anyway.

Furthermore, I feel like there's a big danger if we decided to go with Jackie's theory: it encourages Town players to trust their partners implicitly--there's a very strong chance they're on your side. Which, I can't help but feel it's a lot safer to urge caution.

i don't think jackie's theory actually encourages this, but i do agree with your sentiment here. i don't think it's impossible that buddies share alignment as a rule, but i wouldn't like... bet on that strongly enough to reveal my role or anything. god knows i've been burned doing shit like that before lol. i would discourage discussing your powers with your buddies for the time being—no way of knowing if that information is finding its way to hands we don't want it in.

So, the things that bugged me about uA's theory: 1) it felt really strongly held; like idk if it was just me but uA felt really confident when they claimed this

not really vibing with this however. i didn't get this impression at all, but even if i did... i guess i don't really see the problem with it. it's not like they were spurring everyone to do anything irresponsible. confident setup speculation is just... setup speculation, tbh. i think interspersing every speculative post with "but maybe not" just adds extra words.

want to be clear that i'm not sure i subscribe to jackie's theory and i'm not especially townleaning them, but the response to their post seems kind of weird. i can't help but raise my eyebrow at what feels like disproportionate pushback to a post theorizing about scum configuration. kind of makes me want to believe it more, although i'm resisting that impulse.

 

[Equitial]

After some long thought, Fry decides to visit everyone and sniff them, and see who smells nice (and if anyone gives him pats.). As he sniffs each one present, he makes a face.

4. Rock (Steven/Pano) - A very quiet Tailless. He likes quiet ones
5. Mango (Rui/Yellow) - A very happy Tailless, he thinks for now she is nice.

Tbh how I'm supposed to interpret this list. Is it how Fry personally feels about people, or are we supposed to analyze this? Because I feel a bit wierd about some of these reads. For example, Pano. Now I have a direct line of communication with her, but how is saying not much in-thread making you townread anyone?

 

[Sinderella]

Tbh how I'm supposed to interpret this list. Is it how Fry personally feels about people, or are we supposed to analyze this? Because I feel a bit wierd about some of these reads. For example, Pano. Now I have a direct line of communication with her, but how is saying not much in-thread making you townread anyone?

[[I was gonna chime in and mention this too—Pano hasn’t said a lot, so I’m very null on them. Don’t quite understand the town read here.]]

 

[Sinderella]

the distinction between these two things seems irrelevant to me. the sentiment boils down to "it's not reasonable for you to make assumptions about the game,"

[[I see your point, but to be fair, the same could be said for Jackie being like “As far as I’m concerned, third parties partnered with towns are scumteam.”]]

 

[unrepentantAuthor]

[[A buddy system composed of an SK and a townie is a team with a shared wincon and a kill power. That also describes a mafia. Obviously it's different, but I don't trust people not to behave that way in that situation.]]

[[Anyway, I've shared information on my weird power with my buddy, mostly because keeping it to myself sounded stressful and I had strong reason to believe my buddy isn't scum. Playing this without trusting my buddy sounds like a nightmare.]]

 

[Flyg0n]

After a minute, MangoFry opens his mouth and loudly clicks to get attention before asking something. It takes him a moment before he phrases it in the weird way the Strange Voices speak.

What if there was no mafia? Perhaps there are only these '3rd party' bad guys! Mr. Bones said this 'game' would have... shenanigan's, whatever that was.

Tbh how I'm supposed to interpret this list. Is it how Fry personally feels about people, or are we supposed to analyze this? Because I feel a bit wierd about some of these reads. For example, Pano. Now I have a direct line of communication with her, but how is saying not much in-thread making you townread anyone?

Fry considers this for a long moment. Then he sniffs Equi again and decides if Rock is safe, perhaps this one is.

Perhaps he needs to communicate in a way these beings can understand better. Fry admits he's still very uncertain about everyone. All his reads are loose speculation for now and he'll share more details on why later, as he is a very busy possum. But Fry definitely does have reasons. He also says he is definitely fine with people analyzing what he says. But he has to think back first and see.

However, Fry would also like everyone to know that he is watching everyone closely and trying to think hard. So if he hasn't said a lot yet, its because he's busy and trying to be very careful. He's very determined to catch the right scum!

 

[IFBench]

Gen continued waddling to the store, trying not to think about how scary this all was.

 

[Sinderella]

Playing this without trusting my buddy sounds like a nightmare.]]

[[While I agree with this sentiment, ugh, I can also agree with Q's sentiment to hold off discussing roles with your buddy, at least until there's more information. You (referring to others who are reading this, not specifically you Jackie) might HAVE to distrust your buddy now, or even later, because the system makeups are still so uhhhhhhhh questionable/unknown.]]

 

[Bluwiikoon]

Gen continued waddling to the store, trying not to think about how scary this all was.

The store has many nice things! A cosy coffee shop, an impressive selection of candy, and the usual veggies, fruits, and snacky things you would find at a convenience store.

You notice a particular section - the "Gift Shop". There are various cards and letter-writing implements, as well as little bags and toys, flowers and chocolates. A sign near the counter says that sending gifts and letters to friends and family is "free of charge"... and wait, is that sans behind the counter? Wasn't he just outside? You didn't see him come inside...

 

[Flyg0n]

Fry decides he needs to be more clear with all these weird Creatures and says that he'll give some better thoughts later.

He then begins grooming himself as he gives some deep thought to all the strange occurrences.

 

[Panoramic_Vacuum]

[[quick ooc post, apologies on being so quiet, we're working tens at my job site and there is zero signal (wifi or otherwise) so I'm completely absent for most of the extended work day. I do have things to contribute when I get back later today tho, in about 5 hours]]