[Discussion] You Are a Rock

[Mirage]

Looks like we'll have to worry about shadow corruption also acting against our considerations, at least when Dark Matter's nearby.

Oh yeah, Namo was all "imagine Dark Matter having a Consideration slot? How about we find out instead ":

I don't know that it will affect us too much for a while though. It's mentioned that the corruption will build only slowly, and I can't imagine there being too many scenarios where you, me, or Weavile will side with Dark Matter over the others, and between the three of us, we should be able to suppress his will for quite a while.

Curious whether or not Dark Matter's correct about us not being Yveltal. The Prism Knights seem pretty convinced, and it seems like they of anyone would know, but also there's all kinds of identity fuckery that could be going on here, so who knows. Maybe we're actually the Yveltal of this world or something, not the one who came over with Dark Matter. Maybe we're another species entirely (or originally... maybe we ascended from a mortal pokémon after Yveltal got taken out of commission?). Regardless, we didn't learn very much concrete here.

Those are all very plausible scenarios - I'm very suspicious of Dark Matter's assertion that we aren't Ylvetal, just since we've so many signs. Our power overlap, the appearance of our spirit when we talked to Weavile's spirit directly, our resistance to his corruption, our insanely high power level compared to most things in this world, that fact that Dark Matter DID think we were Ylvetal from a distance... I'm not sure if he's intentionally lying to try to manipulate us, or if he maybe doesn't recognize our reincarnation or revival since we don't have Ylvetal's memories, but I think something's off here.

And while we're on the topic, I'm not convinced by Dark Matter's claim that slaying Xerneas would undo everything destructive on the region here. He says he cares nothing for this world, yet he's clearly not facing much push back in taking it over and spreading his influence... and if he needs Xerneas out of the way, why not take her out directly, when he's clearly more powerful than we are?

Nice prediction again, by the way! The best explanation now appears to be that Xerneas has been corrupted somehow, with how Dark Matter calls her a mockery, and how Kalos is under one giant mystery dungeon. You've been absolutely killing it with seeing where the story is going!

Dark Matter also doesn't seem super powerful in this form... so maybe, if we're feeling spicy, we could try to attack. But idk. We might just end up killing Millie if we did that, anyway. :(

We could try, I'm not opposed to it! But given how he effortlessly took over the Knights and can maintain this dungeon, I have a feeling he's significantly more powerful than we are, so we probably don't have much of a shot at winning, especially since none of our allies are nearby. Plus, even if we did, as you mention, Millie would probably sustain a lot of damage.

Though... if we could just get him out of her, that would achieve one of our primary goals...

We seem to have been pretty summarily dismissed, and Weavile's obviously desperate to get out of here. I could see maybe trying to get one last question in--maybe demanding more information about Xerneas or else we won't do what DM wants? Other than that I don't know that there's much to do here besides peace.

Yeah - I'm going to ask why he wants us to do this instead of doing it himself, since that's personally my biggest question about this. But after that, I think at this point, our best bet is to play along and figure out what's up with Xerneas. Maybe Xerneas really is corrupted and, while Dark Matter might not exactly be any ally to us, we're at least allies of convenience at the moment. Or maybe Dark Matter is a total liar and we can team up with Xerneas and the Prism Knights to take him down.

But either way, I think setting our for Xerneas right now is our best bet.

When we get the chance, I definitely want to find our more about Xerneas from Weavile. I'm gonna be livid if the answer we get is "Oh yeah, she's a total psycho now. I never mentioned it because you never asked "

 

[Negrek]

And while we're on the topic, I'm not convinced by Dark Matter's claim that slaying Xerneas would undo everything destructive on the region here. He says he cares nothing for this world, yet he's clearly not facing much push back in taking it over and spreading his influence... and if he needs Xerneas out of the way, why not take her out directly, when he's clearly more powerful than we are?

It's SO sketch, lol. Worth a try to ask him what he's playing at, although unfortunately I think it's pretty unlikely that we'll get a straight answer. I agree that at this point heading for Xerneas is the way to go. We can assess the situation for ourselves and decide what to do from there. It's always possible that it's a trap and DM just wants to get us into that other dungeon to accomplish his own goals in some way, but one way or another we probably need to get our own eyes on Xerneas to really get a sense of what we should do.

When we get the chance, I definitely want to find our more about Xerneas from Weavile. I'm gonna be livid if the answer we get is "Oh yeah, she's a total psycho now. I never mentioned it because you never asked "

Weavile does a little trolling of the asshole who stole his body.

 

[Negrek]

Our second to last power-up opportunity, hmm.

Once again I think I'm on the side of taking HP/def rather than Energy/atk here, simply because it seems like we want SOME durability? The boost has been getting larger each time we have the opportunity to boost stats, so I'm thinking we could take a defensive option here, then invest in the presumably-larger attack and energy boost later on down the line.

 

[Mirage]

I'm down with that - our lack of defense definitely seems to be a growing issue, and it will only get worse if/when we try to take on even powerful bosses like Xerneas or Dark Matter. Let's go for the extra defense/HP!

 

[Namohysip]

It's aaalmost a week, so the break is over. Be sure to get your replies in for "WHO ARE YOU?"

It's intentionally quite open-ended. I think the prompting prior fills in what you'd really need to know otherwise.

 

[Mirage]

Will do Namo! I think I'll be able to post mine either tomorrow morning before work or tomorrow evening at the latest. Nice not having to adjust for timezones for once, heh.

I know you've mentioned that it's very open ended and it feels clear to me, but since I'm giga prone to misinterpreting stuff and I don't have very much RP or fic writing experience, I was wondering if I could check (just to be 100% clear).

We're being invited to contribute a character of our own as one of Cobble's past lives, correct? And around ~a paragraph or so would be a good length for an intro blerb to Yveltal?

 

[Namohysip]

Yes, that would do. Basically, it's now known that the souls within the stone heart are actually those of this Lost City. Who were you in that City adjacent to the Tree?

 

[Negrek]

I admit, I am a bit confused as to why Dark Matter's attacking us here! I thought he wanted us to go to Kalos to deal with Xerneas, which is exactly what we're doing, so... yeah. Maybe he thinks we're trying to run away, not heading towards Xerneas? I am kind of inclined to at least try talking this out to begin with, just to figure out why he's suddenly all intent on killing us.

Meanwhile it seems like Kyurem is potentially joining us? Possibly summoned by N? In which case I wonder whether it's actually Black or White Kyurem instead of the base form. Not sure what to do with that, really.

Not sure what the best way to go here would be; definitely open to suggestions!

 

[Mirage]

Ehehe... I think I may actually be at fault for this one. It's when he says this:

I can already sense your skepticism, Dark Matter says, its voice rattling your mind.

My consideration was essentially "what's Dark Matter's angle here?", since I was suspicious why he suddenly just appeared out of nowehere without any warning. And I have to admit, despite seeing his greeting in the thoughts area, I completely blanked on the fact that he can actually hear our considerations I'm used to that just being used to shape our own thinking.

I'm guessing that triggered him into thinking that we're not actually going to go through with his plan of slaying Xerneas, so now he wants to possess us completely and try to do it himself. But to claim us, he first needs to defeat us, just like we need to do against other people.

If I'm not totally at fault here though, I think another reason might be our talk with Yveltal. Yveltal and Dark Matter both want to defeat Xerneas, but I don't think they actually agree on what the outcome should be. Yveltal clearly wants her restored to her natural self and to regain her regular place in the world here, while Dark Matter says he doesn't really care at all about this world and just sees her as a mockery of herself. Dark Matter says he didn't recognize us as Yveltal, and we only actually got to speak to Yveltal after Dark Matter infected us... so maybe he learned there that, well, he and Yveltal no longer share the same goals, so he wants Yveltal's power under his direct control.

That's just a theory though - I'm not sure if Dark Matter was close enough to sense that (if he even has a limited range), and even if he was, the spirit world might not be an area he can reach, since he's not actually one of Yveltal's souls like we are.

------------


Either way, I don't think we'll be able to directly fight him yet and defeat him. Darach's Tokyo drifting will probably save us if he can create enough of a distraction through fighting, but I think reaching out to Dark Matter telepathically could work well too. If he's murcurial enough to be set off like this, we might be able to defuse him quickly too with the right message.

Something I'm thinking about trying... I wonder if it's possible to channel Yveltal's spirit directly if we try despite the curse, even if just for a minute or two? I feel like watching these two actually talk to each other could be really fun, and that might throw Dark Matter off enough to get him out of his rage.

But there is that curse that prevents Yveltal from being in control, so - I have no idea if that would work or not. But can't hurt to try right?

Oh yeah, and as for Kyurem... I'm not really sure what to do either, since even if Kyurem is going to attack us, we need to escape or deal with Dark Matter first. The only thing I think we really know is, one way or another, some major shit is about to go down

 

[Negrek]

Nice! Enervate worked perfectly to slow Dark Matter down for a bit; that was a good call. Maybe if he catches up again we can convince him to work with us instead of against us? Especially because Weavile seems to believe that whatever happened to Kyurem is the same as what happened to Xerneas--perhaps he'd want to rid Kyurem of corruption as well.

I wonder if Dark Matter has any souls trapped within himself, and if we might be able to get in contact with or find out who they are in any way...

Well, if nothing else, we may be able to reach out to Millie and/or Lillie. It wouldn't be super surprising if there were other people trapped in there, though...

...it drops out of the fucking sky with zero warning and brutally stomps the everlasting shit out of the protagonist.

Well, I hope not.

It seems like we need to do something defensive here. I don't actually remember what all our abilities are at this point; I don't know if there's a list somewhere I'm missing? The only thing I can think of is Enervate again. Which... kind of seems like it would work for this purpose, since apparently we only need to distract Kyurem briefly, but I'm leery of us relying on it so heavily.

Very interesting, since of course Kyurem was captured and forcibly combined with Zekrom/Reshiram by Ghetsis in the games; maybe he's come back to have another go at them, or perhaps this is some lingering corruption that was introduced at that time.

Other than that, there's a lot I want to do:

- Tell DM to stop being a jerk and help out if he wants to join us on the flight to Kalos
- Get info on Ghetsis from N (who everyone saw be a zoroark, so I guess him keeping that under wraps is now a moot point)
- See whether Weavile has anything more to say about the parallels between Kyurem and Xerneas

 

[Namohysip]

There's a list of abilities on the first post of this thread. I haven't updated it yet for your new powers, but those are more offense-oriented anyway, if you're aiming for defense. Any defense is on the passive side that happens automatically.

 

[Mirage]

Nice! Enervate worked perfectly to slow Dark Matter down for a bit; that was a good call. Maybe if he catches up again we can convince him to work with us instead of against us? Especially because Weavile seems to believe that whatever happened to Kyurem is the same as what happened to Xerneas--perhaps he'd want to rid Kyurem of corruption as well.

Honestly, I didn't expect Enervate to work as well as it did - it's such a useful ability!

I'm open to trying, especially now that we know that the corruption afflicting Kyurem (and by extension Xerneas) isn't caused by him. I'm definitely curious to see what he has to say about this corruption and how it relates to his, and if he wants to get rid of a corrupted Xerneas, I could very easily see him also wanting to get rid of the corruption afflicting Kyurem here. If we're both working towards the same goal, it makes sense to try joining up?

My only long term reservation with Dark Matter is, I feel like we don't know what he's actually doing here or what his end goal is, which makes me worried he'll screw us over if his hidden goal (if he has one) conflicts with ours. Like for example, if we both want to take down Xerneas in her corrupted state, but then he suddenly reveals that he's trying to possess her as a replacement for Yveltal's soul, or something to that effect

It seems like we need to do something defensive here. I don't actually remember what all our abilities are at this point; I don't know if there's a list somewhere I'm missing? The only thing I can think of is Enervate again. Which... kind of seems like it would work for this purpose, since apparently we only need to distract Kyurem briefly, but I'm leery of us relying on it so heavily.

Our other defensive ability is Aura Shroud, which is an ability that costs 2 energy and cloaks us in Shadow, making us harder to spot. I think that would be our next avenue, since enervating Kyurem might not be possible from the 1/4 mile we're currently at.

The tricky part with Aura Shroud is that it seems like it only affects us, as an individual, normally. Unfortunately, we won't be able to use your character's boosting ability, since it explicitly only empowers abilities that deal damage.

We could try the elemental boosting ability from a while back, which lets us fuse one of Weavile's moves with Aura Shroud at the cost of an energy... but we don't know Weavile's moveset, and the only two moves that we do know are Night Slash and Ice Shard, which to me don't seem like they'd mesh that great with a defensive ability.

Weavile does get Double Team in its learnset though if we make the gamble that Weavile knows it, maybe we could create duplicate illusion copies of our car, and then try to cloak just ours with Aura Shroud? That way, we maximize the odds of Kyurem targeting our decoys instead of us.

Very interesting, since of course Kyurem was captured and forcibly combined with Zekrom/Reshiram by Ghetsis in the games; maybe he's come back to have another go at them, or perhaps this is some lingering corruption that was introduced at that time.

That does seem quite likely! If Dark Matter's not the one running around corrupting the legends, Ghetsis seems like the logical next step. I am curious who he's working with to get this dark energy from...

- Tell DM to stop being a jerk and help out if he wants to join us on the flight to Kalos
- Get info on Ghetsis from N (who everyone saw be a zoroark, so I guess him keeping that under wraps is now a moot point)
- See whether Weavile has anything more to say about the parallels between Kyurem and Xerneas

These are all great options honestly, and I think we'll want to do all of them before long. Since Dark Matter is (physically) behind us, we can probably tackle the bottom two now.

With how bad he wants Xerneas gone and calls her an embarrassment to her past self, it definitely feels like he's miffed that someone's stepping on his turf of corrupting people with darkness. I have a feeling he might have a clue as to who that someone or something is...

 

[Negrek]

Some notes for myself... abilities I don't believe are currently listed in the first post and some other info on resources.

Lifesense

If you strike an enemy and they aren't defeated, you can learn about their remaining HP. You can also sense the life of others nearby if you Consider things about them...

The power of a lost hero:
World's Guardian: Before an attack that deals damage resolves, you may sacrifice HP. In doing so, that attack gains 2 points in offense for each HP sacrificed. This attack cannot be used at 1 HP, nor can it take you below 1 HP.

The power of a resourceful jeweler:
Lifegem Essence: After expending Energy, gain HP by the same amount before discounts after the attack resolves. Cannot overheal, and HP is only restored after everything else of the attack is completed.

The power of Death's avatar, and the power of Life's disciple:
Boundary of Life and Death: Once, and only once, if your HP is reduced to 0, instead heal to half your max HP.

Weavile's known attacks: Poison Jab / Ice Shard / Icicle Crash / Swords Dance

Items in Bag: Badge, shriveled Reviver Seed, Hyper Potion 2x, Revive, X Speed

 

[Namohysip]

The above passives have now been added to the first post on this thread. Thanks got rounding them up, Negrek. I'm bad at logging.

 

[Negrek]

So... it looks like we have the opportunity to ~Claim~ Kyurem here. I can't deny that getting to pilot the body of a giant ice dragon would be pretty badass, but putting aside the ethics of involuntarily possessing him, there are a couple things I'm worried about:

- What happens to Weavile when we jump hosts? Is he going to permadie if we jump from his body at this time?
- If Kyurem's affected by some kind of weird, unknown corruption, does that mean we'd have to deal with that if we possessed his body?

We can probably at least examine Kyurem to determine whether the corruption still lingers, but other than that, idk. How are you feeling about this, Mirage?

 

[Mirage]

As far as I understand it, if I remember correctly from earlier in the story, the hosts permanently die after we switch bodies - but given all the souls that we saw when confronting Yveltal, it's possible that Weavile's soul may stick around in some capacity, much as our own characters' did. Would probably be safe to assume that Weavile's main role in the story would come to an end here if we claim Kyurem though.

The corruption's a little worrying in that we know it's strong enough to overpower Xerneas, who possesses a (probably comparable) amount of resistance to corruption as we do. On the other hand, given that we know they're different types and that Dark Matter detests this other form of corruption, they probably counteract each other, at least somewhat? Then again, given that Dark Matter is encouraging us, that's concerning in its own way we definitely do not want to end up in a situation where Dark Matter somehow wrests control of Kyurem from us, he's already dangerously strong with just Millie.

I think... one potentially good thing about being exposed to this other corruption is that, if it behaves like Dark Matter's, it could put us in contact with the being behind all this, we might get some of their thoughts and feelings. That might be the way in which we can start unraveling our largest remaining mystery - who actually is behind all this?

---------------

I'm personally very split myself. Claiming Kyurem would undeniably be badass, and his corruption is the most direct path to potentially figuring out who this other force is.

On the other hand, I'm pretty ride or die with Weavile by this point, so I'm totally fine closing out the story with him (or at least as far as we can get). If we can figure out how to remove the corruption from Kyurem, we may still be able to gain some of his assistance without needing to claim. I'll have to check if he said anything last time, but I wonder if we might be able to tease some extra info about this corruption out of Dark Matter...

 

[Mirage]

Heyo Namo, a bit of a mechanics / lore question. Feel 100% free to pass on an answer if it would be a spoiler or you think it would negatively impact the story direction if we knew...

Is Kyurem considered to be an immortal being in this world? If he is (and I'm personally guessing he is), would it to be reasonable to assume that his body won't permanently turn to stone and his soul pass into the afterlife if we claim him?

 

[Namohysip]

Residual knowledge from Weavile would suggest that Kyurem is immortal but not invincible. Yveltal's knowledge would suggest that all eventually succumb to death, even the "immortal" gods. In terms of how a Legend's body interacts with petrification, you do not know what will happen in these circumstances.

 

[Negrek]

I think... one potentially good thing about being exposed to this other corruption is that, if it behaves like Dark Matter's, it could put us in contact with the being behind all this, we might get some of their thoughts and feelings. That might be the way in which we can start unraveling our largest remaining mystery - who actually is behind all this?

That's a good point... potentially a scary opportunity, but it's an opportunity for sure!

On the other hand, I'm pretty ride or die with Weavile by this point, so I'm totally fine closing out the story with him (or at least as far as we can get). If we can figure out how to remove the corruption from Kyurem, we may still be able to gain some of his assistance without needing to claim. I'll have to check if he said anything last time, but I wonder if we might be able to tease some extra info about this corruption out of Dark Matter...

Yee, Weavile ride or die. I think I'll ask for his opinion in my next post, and take a look to see whether I can tell if the corruption has dissipated. Seeing if we can get any info out of Dark Matter here is also a good idea! Maybe if he's desperate enough for us to use our power here, he'll be a little more forthcoming with us about what's going on.

Edit: I also wonder whether any of the Elites might have a ball for capturing Kyurem? Maybe we can find out more about the corruption if it's subdued in a pokéball. Not sure that we have the time to do much studying up, though.

 

[Negrek]

All riiiiight... looks like we're getting to choose who we bring to the final fight. I kind of get Weavile and Dark Matter's sentiments here, but I definitely think at minimum we need N with us. We know basically nothing about Ghetsis, and N knows the guy better than anyone... assuming Ghetsis has some involvement, I think we need him there.

The E4 can probably help us against any mooks or other obstacles that might appear in Kalos, but I doubt they'll be able to do anything against Xerneas. If we wanted to give them the slip, I wouldn't be opposed to it.

Torn on whether to bring Millie. If she wants to come, I'm kiiiind of inclined to let her, but like, on its face, that is an insane idea. I don't imagine the final battle is going to be won primarily based on strength of arms, though, so if she wants to try to help, she might be an asset? Perhaps we should just ask her what's on her mind--see why she wants to come/whether she has anything in mind for how she might be able to help.

I'm trying to think whether there's anyone else we'd want to bring along. Kind of wondering whether we should see if Marshtomp/Druddigon are able to join? It's dicey... obviously they might immediately start trying to kill us upon release, which would be unhelpful. But if Weavile could convince them to help, Xerneas' disciples seem like the people who'd be most likely to be able to deal with whatever Xerneas' whole deal proves to be.