[TOWN WIN] Fourth Anniversary Vanilla Mafia

[Starlight Aurate]

[[Actually now that i’ve written my thoughts out, maybe there is a doc and a serial killer and doc miraculous targeted whoever the SK went after??? But there’s 4 of us left, I just have SUCH a hard time believing there is an SK, Scum, a Doc, and another town left??????? THEY HAD TO BE LOVERS, I WILL START A BRUSH FIRE IF I’M WRONG ON GOD /j ]]

"Time to start burning things."

 

[Sinderella]

“What do you know????”

 

[Sinderella]

[[Oh wow shit how tf did i not see two posts from Espy AND Starlight fuck my notifs lul.

Alright gonna read and think on this ]]

 

[Sinderella]

[[Holy SHIT okay. So, full disclosure, I am 100% powerless Vanilla town. Absolutely no utility on me whatsoever. So if Starlight is telling the truth and is actually a doc, and there actually are two killers left, I think I believe Tetra is the scum person. Espy makes valid points about not being scum, but could stealth really well as an SK with very little posting and occasional effortposts. I can't imagine Starlight managed to galaxybrain a big farce like this and considering it seems Jackie did softclaim BP and only one person died, I can ALMOST agree with the theories. Either both SK and scum targeted Jackie and broke the BP or her protection on me last night worked.

That was how I knew we have two killers among us. Lovers isn't an explanation anymore. It was also why I was all right with people suspecting me; if I died, I wouldn't be able to keep any of you safe.

BUT this could have also been a strongman kill. This doesn't 100% confirm there were two killers; either two killers indeed targeted Jean for some godforsaken reason, but scum could have also had a strongman kill.

Additionally, I had a running theory that all members of scumteam had strongman kills, so who's to say that whoever's left didn't use it on Jackie? Strongman CAN use it on a BP player successfully. Now that I'm thinking about it, someone could have also shot Jackie on another night, popped her BP (if it was a one-shot only) and then finished the job tonight????

So the theories I have are:

• 2 Town, 1 Sk, 1 Scum ---> Both SK and Scum targeted Jackie last night. Both SK and Scum also doubled down on Jean the other night and bypassed the Doc block.
• 2 Town 1 SK, 1 Scum ---> SK and Scum Targeted Jackie and I. Starlight's Doc protect worked worked on me, Jackie wasn't actually BP, baited a shot, and died.
• 2 Town, 1 SK, 1 Scum ---> SK and Scum Targeted Jackie and I. When Jean died, Scum used a Strongman Kill, SK Targeted Jackie and popped her BP (assuming it was a one-shot BP), hence why there was only one kill when Jean died. Job was finished last night by one of them. Starlight's Doc protect worked on me if they targeted me, or the second killer also doubled down on Jackie.
• 3 Town, 1 Scum ---> All scum had a BP. One was used on Jean, last remaining scum used it on Jackie last night to ensure it broke her BP if she wasn't lying on that softclaim.

Either way, if we actually ARE dealing with an SK and a scum member, scum member has to go first. And out of Espy and Tetra, and I feel like Tetra is most likely the scum. So @HelloYellow17 Vote Tetra ]]

 

[Sinderella]

*sorry for that last bullet point i meant “all scum had a strongman shot

 

[Flyg0n]

Loaf gave a low, anxious whine. Everyone had suddenly become so hostile. had he done such a bad job of hunting for bad guys they thought he was one? More than ever, he missed Marcel...

[[Starlight is a doctor?

..... okay this changes everything...

Soooo.... I spent a lot of time contemplating if this was true or an absurd gambit from scum, but I don't think so. Starlight's behaviors line up now more, they were hiding being doctor. There is a chance they lied, and late game doctor claim isn't a half bad gambit because odds are that the doctor is dead by now, if we have them, especially because Jean died. I could see this as being the case but after looking at starlights posts and playstyle they align more with a doctor playing tame than a SK or scum? I think... a argghh we're too close now.

I just... I don't think I don't trust starlight here. Or at least, her actions hold the most weight to me and unless something crazy happens I can't see myself voting her? I feel more uncertain than ever nowww

First off, I'm vanilla. There's not a lot I can say in my defense, rolewise.

I know I haven't been the best player, I've waffled and been uncertain and sussed some of the wrong people, but to my credit I was also a part of the vote that happened between fauxfox/jackie. I'm not scum. If I was scum I would surely absolutely not have even bothered to vote - the tie was between fauxfox/jackie, who was gunning for me, but I made an effort to save Jackie (RIP), because I believed their softclaim, whereas whoever dies makes absolutely no difference to a scum or SK. And that softclaim being BP, any scum would have wanted jackie dead (this doesn't, however, implicate starlight, this is a different scenario given starlight didn't have a chance to reassess the vote).

I know I did a lot of throwing around but thats mostly just... me being me. I'm vanilla and I just figured, my death doesn't really matter so I'd play however and try to help but I didn't do very well. I've been trying my best but most of my games I either died quick or lasted in some for of weird rolemadness.

I suspect now that its possible the SK is responsible for shooting jackie twice (?), and Jean dying was a strongman transfer or double kill, but its still hard to know, not as if the SK or scum is gonna come out of the woodwork and say so. (Another thought I just had as I typed this. The kills last night might have been our SK and Doctor protected the scum? I guess this technically doesn't matter though? Would still mean two killing parties.). (Or we really did have lovers but I just don't think so, but at this stage it seems risky to ignore or write off a possibility?)

RE: Starlight You started the day as more sus of Espy but rapidly switched to me - I'm not sure I get your reasoning here, but either way I do believe your doctor claim. As easy as a claim it would be to avoid getting lynched I think it explains more if its true than if it isn't. But I regrettably am not sure what other defenses I can make, other than to simply say I am not the best and also I'm less experienced at town vanilla, oof. Sorry guys in advance, I hope the killers shoot themselves overnight?

Anyways I'm a bit freaked out over all this, mislynching me tonight could very nearly be a game loss, if we don't have an SK. We can't afford this to happen.

There's two configurations I see. Both are grim once we mislynch. We need to nail the right one tonight.

• Three town, One scum -> Lovers was the first NK. Somewhat unlikely but not impossible, though as above I want to lean towards SK? otherwise town is about to lose Hnnggg (unless you don't mislynch me)
• Two town, one scum, one SK -> Ironically funny scenario, unless SK and scum shoot each other, its a possible town loss. But town could still win here? Depending on who shoots who and who starlight protects

Now if the first one is true, my gambit is still Espy they still feel the outright most sus to me and the most to hide and I'm honestly surprised they didn't even get voted off D1/D2, just for the sake of lynching inactives as I sometimes see (although if not for chibi confessing maybe that would have happened?)

The second theory is more disturbing because it means either Starlight or Sind is deceiving us and well,,,, Don't like.

I believe Starlight over Sind though, unfortunately, and as galaxy of a gambit starlight could be playing, I'm not sure it feels like a gambit, there doesn't feel any deception there... BUT I don't want to vote for my two towny vibers yet. I need more information.

Which STILL leaves me at Espy! After voting Espy and if I manage to survive the night, the information gained from their vote can help us find whoever remains - Sind or Starlight (or if we're VERY lucky Starlight saves us and we get another night). Or maybe I die and... honestly Idk, winning depends on starlight then i guess? (if you are doctor, well TY, in theory you saved us two nights in a row in a way so, thanks)

I stand by my assertation that voting Espy gives us our highest chance of survival for town. I can't see a configuration WITHOUT espy but as for the final one, IF there is one, we'll inevitably have to deal with tomorrow (or whoever lives will have to)?]]

 

[Flyg0n]

[[Though my vote remains I'll be trying my best to review between work stuff and see if I missed anything...]]

 

[Flyg0n]

[[I've given it a fair deal of thought and I think I've realized something...

Not only do we definitely have an SK, I think I've deduced which of the two it is.

I believe starlight, which means I definitely see Espy/Sind as our last two killers.

Out of everyone, only one person has seemed most on the fence and insisting on lovers while playing very towny. Or rather, not playing scummy. Sind HAS been playing very town-like but in reality, a SK would have the least need to do anything out of the ordinary or keep up any ploys. They can play exactly like town with no subterfuge between teammates. But they would be the most likely to be on the side of hard going for lovers or no SK.

Espy scum also fits the theory of why chibi might have caved, as jackie theorized (I keep bringing this up bc if anyone would know, it would be jackie, about this detail).

You can sus me all you want but at the end of the day I am an unknown to you, innocent to myself. However, I am convinced our SK is Sind and would be entirely down to vote for her and hash out the details tomorrow if I survive and you guys still want to sus me but I will be absolutely livid if we just mislynch again and lose because of it.

I will also admit right now that in my initial post above yes I speculated that lovers was still possible but my final assertation was that I leaned much more heavily towards two killers and that I saw Espy as our highest chance. However, I bear a concern that I'll likely never be seen as anything but sus by you guys and once you kill me, its practically game over. So between my two picks of Espy and Sind, if Sind is the one I can convince you guys of, then so be it.

Also I'm town, but if sind really believed I was scum, and she's the SK, she would absolutely desperately want to get rid of someone she thought was scum and she voted me after seeing she could get a majority. If I can't convince you guys I'm not scum we can all agree Sind is SK. She's been playing us like a fiddle this whole time.

Also sind saying she's more worried about scum than SK pings very weird to me, neither of them staying alive is even slightly less dangerous for town.

Either way, if we actually ARE dealing with an SK and a scum member, scum member has to go first.

Think about it... if scum or Sk is lynched tonight, one still remains and unless doctor protects the right person, and the kill is blocked, its still some kind of tie. Only an SK would be so frantic to stay alive they would suggest that its less dangerous to ignore an SK and be touting most of the game that lovers is the case. I don't like these vibes at all.

@SparklingEspeon @Starlight Aurate I would ask you reconsider, at the very least, to avoid a mislynch and aim somewhere more accurate. I can't defend myself much as vanilla, though in the past days I did try to explain my actions. And if both of you seem ready to believe in Espy's innonce for today, I am prepared to back down on my certainty in the name of taking out anyone dangerous and tomorrow we can salt it out, but we cannot afford to have two killers alive tonight.

Vote: Sind (@HelloYellow17 )
]]

 

[Sinderella]

[[LO FUCKING L, nah, nah you're so scum it's laughable, thank you for helping me be ABSOLUTELY certain of my vote. You've been consistently a sussy baka this entire game and now you're gonna try and throw down with me? Go off.

Also sind saying she's more worried about scum than SK pings very weird to me, neither of them staying alive is even slightly less dangerous for town.

How is that weird????? If we are actually down to 2 town, 1 scum, and 1 SK, then killing scum should be the priority because I'm 99% sure that ends the game??? Nope I just checked mafiascum, if an SK is still in the game, apparently, the game WOULDN'T end. Now I don't actually know if eliminating scum in this day phase and having a possible SK be alive in the night phase to kill one of the last two town would end the game either??? SK wincon is "last one alive" so if it came down to an SK and a townie, would that be a draw??? Or would town immediately win because all scum is gone??? Mafiascum doesn't specify soooo I don't know, but I guess my certainty of scum being a bigger threat than SK was a little unwarranted but I was SO sure all scum being dead ended the game BECAUSE of SK wincon, especially knowing that if it came down to an SK existing in this meta, it'd be a 1-1 in the last phase. Idfk.

But this is all speculation because THOSE SHOTS THAT STARLIGHT PROTECTED COULD HAVE BEEN BYPASSED BY STRONGMAN SHOTS. THERE IS NO CERTAINTY THAT THERE IS EVEN A SERIAL KILLER PRESENT, so Tetra sitting here spouting "well yeah there's def a serial killer" is just more smoke-blowing confusing nonsense she's been doing the whole game, and it's a last-ditch effort to swing the game in her favor. A very nice play, tbh, but like come on man. I voted you because you've been on my sus list this entire game, gurl.]]

 

[Flyg0n]

[[Nice try serial killer

If I die tonight, watch your backs folks.]]

 

[Flyg0n]

[[Jackie was right too, to be suspicious of anyone who was too eager to insist there wasn't an SK. Wish Jackie was here ]]

 

[Flyg0n]

[[Also to everyone not named sind

Scum and town have good reason to want an SK dead, whereas SK doesn't care who dies as long as it isn't them, but absolutely does have an interest in convincing town and scum there is no threat from an SK, only scum.

I've been in favor of both (as in, in favor oof considering an SK and scum) and then strong towards SK whereas a certain someone among us keeps trying to play as if there isn't another threat, or downplay the threat level]]

 

[Sinderella]

[[I actually just had a thought to. Starlight, can you self-protect? I doubt it, mafiascum says normally docs can't, but did your role PM suggest it? If you CAN could you possibly self-protect yourself tonight (and hope, if there is an SK, that they go for you over me or you make an educated guess based on your hunch idfk) and maybe if the game doesn't end see to an IMMEDIATE vote-out of Espy, who would undoubtedly be the SK, if we successfully vote out Tetra today? That's all a big hypothetical if you even CAN target yourself because I know docs usually can't do that, but I thought i'd ask.

Also gurl while I have been insistent that it's most likely lovers and strongman shots, it's only been because it makes the most sense IN MY HEAD for the makeup of this game, and continuously being worried about other parties when (I'm very certain) there's only scum just wastes time (i.e. like I've speculated you've been doing this entire game). But I have also said I'm willing to eat my fucking foot if I'm wrong.

Not to mention if I were SK I'd have read over my role on mafiascum over and over again and not just assumed that all scum dead ended the game. Clearly I missed the memo on game-ending mechanics. Additionally, I made my stance on SK gameplay clear--if what killed Jean was in fact a double-up kill and not a strongman shot, I SCREAMED about how I WOULD NOT have targeted Jean if I were SK. I made it PERFECTLY FUCKING KNOWN that I believed an SK going for Jean would be a STUPID move, both knowing rolecops can't catch an SK and that scum would want her dead. If I wanted to play to an SK wincon, I would have selected a completely different person to diminish the numbers in my favor. And honestly??? I can't say I'd have gone at Jackie either, whatever the fuck happened there. They had some sus, I'd have wanted that to stay out for more speculation, OR let scum have it because I know Jackie is a good scum hunter. To be brutally honest, I'm sure the game would have probably ended a lot fucking faster if I were indeed the SK.

Also, where was all this speculation two days ago, huh? Now that you're getting trained and we're nearing EOD you're trying to argue in your favor? Baybee TOTK can't save you from clear scum behavior I know that for a fact lmao]]

 

[Flyg0n]

[[don't see a need to defend myself to a serial killer and I think I addressed my stance on why I changed my vote and why sind is the sk, so the next bits is mostly for the benefit of Starlight, the one who I belive is town.

so (to starlight) even if I can't convince you I'm town, since for you my word is 50/50, as town or scum I want SK very dead, right? So its still town favor to kill the SK. But for you, you have major unknowns, sind, and me and Espy, in which case hopefully you could somehow live long enough to stop at least one of the espy/sind (and if one of us survives maybe town can still win?). Even if you do believe I'm scum it's fully true I'd want to kill the SK. I'd have no reason to lie about that.

Also the flow of today can help you decide who to protect.
(looking at sinds post, self protecting is odd and possibly what I'd expect an SK to say, so they know you're not protecting the last townie)

And espyscum favor to kill the SK but that might be a lost cause....

(although I assure you (mostly to starlight who I guess is the last one I trust) as scum I would have played smarter out the gate today lol? I would have knowledge of who is innocent and would have spent a lot more time constructing a better arguement because I'd have all night to make a better one than going from espy to Sind. but I've been playing flaw this whole time, good grief.

Also I would surely not have cared who had won the tie between Jackie / fauxfox. In fact any scum who could have swung it without sounding suspicious at the time would have likely wanted Jackie dead... I did not (as I said my vote was to ensure there wasn't a tie and Jackie would live). I could have left it to the coin. Not lynching Jackie if I was scum would be absurd and I wouldn't have swung the vote in favor of saving jackie.

Anyways as for not being around as much, first, I was actually busy these last couple days (mothers day) and also I had no reason to defend myself as fiercely when there wasn't a vote majority train on me? I'm trying to avoid a town loss, but defending myself to a serial killer is kind of a waste tbh, so I'm saying this for the one I'm not voting for (star).

Anyways sind flailing suggests to me that shes an inexperienced SK who missed something about her role, as is human (I mean i missed that obvious thing earlier in the game lol, so its not abnormal), which I caught her in.

Sind doesnt even have a vote majority on her yet, yet she seem quite nervous. As if I struck a nerve.

Look, if you all lynch me today, when I turn up town, maybe somehow the killers kill each other but if not... just know I said from the get go it was Sind.

Good luck]]

 

[Sinderella]

[[Yeah I'm annoyed as FUCK that this is happening 5hours before eod because you're flailing scum. If I die, town most likely loses and thats that.]]

 

[Flyg0n]

[[Same here🤣

Unless I was supposed to lie down and let myself get mislynched and town lose.

I guess we'll see at the end of it all.

Good game either way. You played an excellent stealth SK and Espy managed to coast under our noses.

Props to Starlight no matter what, you did your absolute best as doctor and possibly prevented more deaths and managed to play well enough to stay alive but not for scum to kill you, kudos honestly. ]]

 

[Flyg0n]

[[Please tell me we're not gonna just go like this til the end of the day, even if you're convinced to vote me please don't waste the chance to figure out the *other* guilty party!

Tunneling or getting too self confident right at day end is exactly how town can lose wayy too easy]]

 

[Flyg0n]

[[Had some thoughts while driving home.

We have a dire situation. Tomorrow puts us at parity with no way to kill the other kill party. Its a tie and would go in favor of the TP probably.

Town can only win in one, very absurd way. (and let's be real, no matter which party you belong to it's the funniest option)

Let me explain.

Starlight is our doctor. This leaves three vanilla parties.

One SK, one scum, one true vanilla.

Scenario 1: We lynch one killer tonight. The other just kills the doctor. That leaves us with a vanilla and a killer. Killer wins at parity probably. Town doesn't win.

Scenario 2: We mislynch and then the doctor gets killed and the vanilla probably too, or at least one vanilla. Town still doesn't win.

Even if we guess right tonight the killer will still kill the doctor and leave a tie. Town loss.

And thus I present you...

Scenario 3: lynch no one. And before you lambast me immediately, just listen, please.

If we kill no one tonight that leaves an SK, a doctor, an innocent and a scum. One to protect, one to kill and one to be killed.

And I for one cannot possibly think of a more chaotic and hilarious ending to the game then a four way madness at night.

Will killers try to kill each other, hoping the other targeted the doctor? Will the doctor block a killers kill? Will the doctor pick wrong and the killer gets killed and the other lives? Who knows!

*but* this option yields the highest potential for town to win too. Because the killers would almost certainly try to gun for each other...

Idk y'all I'm just saying this way sounds wildand really really funny (let's face it I'm gonna get mislynched anyway and then what? I guess the killers kill each other? Or more likely just kill doctor.)

Is it ever advisable not to vote or to lynch? Probably not! But this is really funny. And it's a unique situation. (can you tell I've given up on living) ]]

 

[Starlight Aurate]

Maressa listened to Loaf and Noel shout at each other, pointing paws and fingers, while Espurr stared blankly. As chaotic as it was, part of her felt relieved. It was nice, for once, for others to be convicted of her innocence.

But that didn't solve the problem of finding out who the other Innocent was.

She stood up and started fixing a BCD and regulator to a scuba tank.

"I have to go soon, and don't have much time. As for my vote..."

She smiled at Loaf.

Scenario 3: lynch no one.

"Tell Jean I'm sorry I failed to save her."

[[Tl;dr: I don't have time to thoroughly reply because I gotta go scuba diving (perks of working as a marine biologist, yo) but my vote remains where it is, largely due to what I quoted. GG, Tetra!]]

 

[Flyg0n]

[[I want to make it clear that I'm not suggesting no lynch as a real thing I'm just saying it's funny as heck]]