[TOWN WIN] Fourth Anniversary Vanilla Mafia

[unrepentantAuthor]

Maressa tilted her head. "I'm not following your logic. Why wouldn't a Rolecop pick up on a Serial Killer? They can identify if someone is killing, can't they?"

[[What logic? I'm literally just quoting the wiki. Rolecops don't detect Serial Killers.]

 

[Starlight Aurate]

Vanilla players have role names that vary by faction; a Role Cop scanning these will get "Vanilla" as the response, again anonymising the win condition. Thus, a Mafia Goon or a Serial Killer should give the same result as a Vanilla Townie.

"Ah, my bad. I misinterpreted this at first."

[[Or at least, this would be the first I've heard of it. In some games, the factional kill transfers in this way, but that's between Goons, and it's specific to that power, and it's not true of all games. Also, if Strongman transfered, wouldn't that just mean the Scumteam could always ignore all protections forever? What would be the point of having Doctors? What on earth...??]]

[[oh wait I was thinking of the factional kill]]

Maressa shook her head. "I have a lot to process... I'll get back to you in a bit when I've had time to think."

 

[unrepentantAuthor]

Whiskey snarled in frustration.

"I suggest you brush up on your comprehension of game mechanics before asserting that I'm mistaken, pirate."

[[I... don't think Star is scum. But she's dead wrong about most of what she's saying.]]

 

[FauxFox]

"Well we can assume that there was a second mafia based on how Stygian didn't try to deny anything. If there are two mafia, is it possible that they were both able to kill night one, and there is no serial killer?" Theo proposed. "And if that is the case, is it possible that we have an odd night serial killer, and another mafia, and maybe both the serial killer and one of the mafia hit the same target night one?"

 

[FauxFox]

"There goes the possibility that we have an attentive Doctor or Bodyguard," he growled, bitterly. "Very well – we must assume that no protective role survives. And we can not safely assume that we have a living Cop, either. Jean's Rolecop power was very likely our entire Info Role apparatus. Hopefully some living Town have a useful power. Do try to keep quiet about it, yes?"

"And if anyone does have a useful role, take Whiskey's advice and keep quiet about it, at least until you can out someone as guilty." Theo added. "If you out yourself now, you will just make yourself target number one for our killers here. Though I guess there is always the chance of all vanilla townies and a killer or two left, in which case this is all just social deduction now."

 

[Starlight Aurate]

Whiskey snarled in frustration.

"I suggest you brush up on your comprehension of game mechanics before asserting that I'm mistaken, pirate."

[[I... don't think Star is scum. But she's dead wrong about most of what she's saying.]]

Maressa glowered. "I am not wrong about about most of what I'm saying, okay? I got some of the definitions and gameplay mechanics wrong. I'm sorry, all right? But I've made other good points!"

She crossed her arms. "We're down to a few options, aren't we? Either there are two kills or there was a strongman kill. I don't think we have a negligent Doctor, unless someone killed on the first night was one. We know that Stygian was a strongman, and the strongman kill doesn't transfer, just the factional kill, thank you," she added with a glare at Whiskey, "so it probably wasn't that. So it was possibly two kills and the second kill penetrated Doctor protection. If we had two kills last night, and two kills the first night, we probably don't have Lovers, either."

She looks up into the spacious void around her. "The being who's running this game... Has she run one before? Because my creator--" Maressa looks at me--"also thought of putting a Serial Killer in the game she ran. But that was a very small game, and it would've been unbalanced with a Serial Killer. So she changed it at the last minute. If this one--whoever controls Mew--hasn't run a Mafia game before, then maybe we do have a third party among us...

"Another possibility is that the Mafia members were as baffled by a second kill as the rest of us, and so maybe they put forth the Serial Killer theory, or at least latched onto it. Let's see..."

Maressa looked back at the actions done by previous players.

"The first mention of a Serial Killer in this game is here:"

"It's reasonable to assume that one elimination was by the Mafia team, and the other was by a Serial Killer. In a game this small, I suspect the Mafia is a two-person team which may only perform one kill per night, and the Serial Killer may be limited to odd nights. I would be surprised if a Vigilante player chose to perform a kill on the first night – if one even exists, which I wouldn't count on."

"I think what Whiskey said about there not being a Vigilante the first night makes a lot of sense. If there is a Vigilante in this game, I don't think he's acted yet. So I think we're back to one of two options: Lovers, or a third-party kill.

"If it was Lovers, then there was no second kill. If it was a third-party kill, then someone tried to protect Jean, and one kill broke through protection."

She narrowed her eyes at Whiskey. The Absol-morph had always unsettled her, and it wasn't just because it was a humanoid not-human. "I know I said a lot of incorrect things. But you were the first to present the Serial Killer theory, and you've latched onto it ever since. What is your reasoning for thinking that a Serial Killer is more likely than lovers? You seem confident that we're likely to have a Serial Killer but not a Vigilante. Wouldn't a Vigilante make more sense?"

"Well we can assume that there was a second mafia based on how Stygian didn't try to deny anything. If there are two mafia, is it possible that they were both able to kill night one, and there is no serial killer?" Theo proposed. "And if that is the case, is it possible that we have an odd night serial killer, and another mafia, and maybe both the serial killer and one of the mafia hit the same target night one?"

"I agree with Theo. I suppose it's possible two Mafia members were able to kill, but it would be odd for the second killer to not be the Strongman, which we know Stygian was, and she died before last night. And if the Serial Killer is odd-night, then that would have meant that Anti-Bravo-Man and Kari were lovers, weren't they, since they died Night Zero? I think either is possible...

"Another thing," she said as she looked at the others. "We know that Stygian was Mafia, and she was all for the possibility of there being a Serial Killer among us. She says so here:

"This game is called 'vanilla' which means most of us won't have abilities. 'Redirection' should not exist here. Whatever the reason, those two were chosen. The Absol-experiment is correct--there is most likely a 'serial killer'."

"And Stygian is very clever at games like these. She was Mafia, but if she was concerned about a second killer on the loose, I'd hope we could trust her word. Mafia would be as concerned about a serial killer as the Innocents, wouldn't they?"

The absol-morph grinned darkly. "Unless, of course, the Mafia and Serial Killer target each other in the night. Now, that would be fine fortune."

"Yes," Maressa said bitterly. "So it would. So you think that the Loaf is one of our killers, do you? And did you make that choice out of a desire to get things moving, or because you have a serious accusation against him?

"Of our current players, assuming there are two killers among them... Let's see...

Flyg0n: Loaf [Dachsbun, Male]

Sinderella: Noel Massè [Human, Male]

Starlight Aurate: Maressa [Human, Female]

FauxFox: Theodore [Zorua, Male]

SparklingEspeon: Espurr [Espurr, Female]

unrepentantAuthor: Whiskey [Absol Pokémorph, Male]

I'm feeling the most concerned about Whiskey, although he's also been the most active. Theo and Espurr had some good points. I feel like I haven't heard of from Noel--though I'm not sure I want to..." Maressa felt slightly off looking at the other human present. Though they were the same species, something about him seemed a little too... personal with others for her tastes. She looked at the Pokemon and smiled encouragingly.

"What about the rest of you? I'd love to hear your thoughts!"

 

[Sinderella]

[[Catchup post and reads coming soon, sorry I was AFK last night :’) ]]

 

[FauxFox]

"I agree with Theo. I suppose it's possible two Mafia members were able to kill, but it would be odd for the second killer to not be the Strongman, which we know Stygian was, and she died before last night. And if the Serial Killer is odd-night, then that would have meant that Anti-Bravo-Man and Kari were lovers, weren't they, since they died Night Zero? I think either is possible...

"Honestly, I forgot that we started on Night Zero, maybe an even night Serial Killer? The would possibly explain why we only had one kill last night. I guess the number of kills tonight will clear up how many killers are left. I think Stygian was the only Strongman on the mafia though, and at this point we probably just don't have any town protective roles left, so no one could protect Jean last night."

 

[Starlight Aurate]

Villager
Goon
Doctor
Cop
Rolecop
Bodyguard
Bulletproof
Strongman
Vigilante
Serial Killer
Lovers

"Last thing I'm noticing," Maressa added, "is that there aren't any blockers on here, either. The Mafia Strongman is dead. So I think, unless one of our Doctors was eliminated Night Zero, we had two kills, and one of them ended up going through the Doctor protection and killing Jean."

Maressa's heart twisted as she looked at the Pokemon and person around her. It was just like being back at Team Aqua: people seemed friendly, or at least trustworthy, but at least one--probably two--of them was ready to stab them in the back.

"Honestly, I forgot that we started on Night Zero, maybe an even night Serial Killer? The would possibly explain why we only had one kill last night. I guess the number of kills tonight will clear up how many killers are left. I think Stygian was the only Strongman on the mafia though, and at this point we probably just don't have any town protective roles left, so no one could protect Jean last night."

"We don't have that kind of time! There are only six of us left. If there are two more kills tonight, then we're down to four. If there are two Mafia, or a Mafia and a Serial Killer, then the Innocents will be almost outnumbered. We need to act."

She looked at the Absol-morph.

"I'm tentatively voting for Whiskey, though I do want to hear more from others first. He was first to present the Serial Killer theory, which Stygian agreed with and also seemed concerned about. But let's have everyone's input about last night first."

 

[Sinderella]

"Alright, I found a tri-fold, don't ask where. Here's what I got," Noel said, presenting his board like a proud student presenting a project.

Spoiler: The Tri-Fold

The Tri-Fold:

ANTI-BRAVOMAN AND KARI HAVE BEEN ELIMINATED. THEY WERE TOWN.

Retire in poverty homies.

Real talk, these felt like INSANELY random kills to me; nothing against Wind and Seren, they're great players, it just felt......really "spin the wheel and shoot whoever it lands on." Or they're just lovers.

"It's reasonable to assume that one elimination was by the Mafia team, and the other was by a Serial Killer. In a game this small, I suspect the Mafia is a two-person team which may only perform one kill per night, and the Serial Killer may be limited to odd nights. I would be surprised if a Vigilante player chose to perform a kill on the first night – if one even exists, which I wouldn't count on."

He rhythmically tapped his claws on his horn, as if it were some cognitive aid, or a means of counting something.

"...Assuming further that we will benefit from protective roles once or twice and perform no more than one miselimination, we nevertheless run the risk of losing on Night Three. As we have eight players now, two further Town eliminations without an Anti-Town elimination would put us – if my assumptions are accurate – at Town/Anti-Town parity. Possibly as early as Day Two."

The absol-morph grinned darkly. "Unless, of course, the Mafia and Serial Killer target each other in the night. Now, that would be fine fortune."

He shrugged, and adjusted his shirt buttons to let some neck-ruff free, then sat down on the rim of the central fountain and crossed his arms.

"I think I'll leave it to you rabble to figure out who to eliminate in today's vote. Persuade me."

Jackie goes straight for the assumption that there's a serial killer with odd nights.

"I think it was a strongman kill. A serial killer in a game this small would end the game very quickly. But if it was a strongman kill, I wonder why they targeted Kari or Anti-Bravo-Man.

"I wonder... were both of these deliberate deaths? Or could at least one have been redirected? I wouldn't have thought these two to be the first to go."

Starlight suggests a strongman kill (which, from reading, we later realize she meant Vigilante here). Also suggests a redirection which is.....the opposite of vanilla lmao

"This game is called 'vanilla' which means most of us won't have abilities. 'Redirection' should not exist here. Whatever the reason, those two were chosen. The Absol-experiment is correct--there is most likely a 'serial killer'."

Chibi points out that redirection powers are def not vanilla. Agrees with Jackie that there might be a serial killer.

"Ooh, or, or they were lovers!" she suggested excitedly. "Then maybe they only shot one of them, and then bam, the other one died too!"

Free is the one that ends up bringing up lovers.

"But doesn't the strongman just kill one person really hard? What does that have to do with two people dying?"

And also points out that the potential "strongman" attribute should have nothing to do with how two people died

"This one is entirely correct. There may indeed have been a single elimination action performed against a Lover, a Bodyguard absolutely could have taken an elimination meant for someone else, and these two possibilities are mutually exclusive. I also have no particular concept of whether the targets were unusual, and they may as well have been random for all I know or care."

Jackie surmises more about role possibilities

But it seems dreadfully possible, or even the bodyguard theory posited? Though if the bodyguard blocked one shot... We could have multiple things be true.
A vigilante, a bodyguard, and lovers. Just because two died doesn't mean they were lovers, it could be for another reason, which means the lovers need to be careful... also it sucks if we lost our bodyguard already.)

I'm not entirely sure how vigilante comes into play here; aren't they town aligned? Both players who died last night were town.

"Not at all, Dachshund. The bodyguard is perhaps our most disposable role besides ordinary Town. If they prevented the death of another power role, then that is entirely to our benefit."

Jackie points out bodyguard is majorly indisposable i guess

"If two people get killed, there are only three ways that can happen. One's if they're lovers! If they were then they weren't bodyguards, so the mafia must have really gone for one of them. But there also could have been a serial killer, and then one of them could've been a bodyguard and either the mafia or the serial killer really targeted somebody else, but the bodyguard died instead, and the other one hit whoever they were trying to. But also maybe they just went for people who wouldn't get healed! So it's not that weird if they're people you wouldn't target." She paused. "Or there could have been a vigilante who took a shot. But that'd be weird! Why would the vigilante just shoot somebody when they don't know anything about them? So that's probably not what happened."

Free makes a lot of speculation on how two people could have died last night.

I know Free flipped innocent but from my readthrough I noticed A LOT of speculation on a possible bodyguard just MIRACULOUSLY targeting someone who scum/TP/whoever the fuck targeted last night and it just strikes me as really bizarre. Those kills felt nothing short of random, and I feel like the chances of any given bodyguard selecting the same people to be killed are slim to none.

Unless (and I realized this as I was writing it), scum decided to target a more prolific player and Wind/Seren were bodyguards and had the same idea???? Look at me eating my own crow kekw

"But nobody knew anything last night. So there's no reason to think the bodyguard would've been protecting somebody important. Maybe the bodyguard died to protect somebody who couldn't do anything. Maybe the bodyguard died to protect one of the mafia."

Oh hm, this could also make sense, if a vig actually was at play??? But this also seems largely random, and I feel like......a vig wouldn't/shouldn't shoot so early in the game? Don't most vig roles usually only have a certain amount of attempts? So why waste one so early with NO info? Unless they aren't limited to an X-shot in this game, in which case, fuck me ig

Option 1: SK + Mafia
-We have a SK
-Mafia killed one
-SK killed the other.

Option 2: Mafia only, Lovers (windy + seren)
- Windy and Seren were lovers, and mafia killing one killed the other?

Option 3: Mafia+Vigilante
-We have a vigilante who shot blind and hit town :(
-Mafia killed the other

Option 4: Vig/SK kill, mafia kill?
-mafia kills seren/windy
-seren/windy, who is a vig or SK, killed the other.
Mafia>seren>windy
Mafia>windy>seren

Flygon makes some speculation about how two people died

[I can't imagine it's likely in this situation but I might as well throw it into the hat rn. I would sooner believe lovers or an SK before I believed there's a multi-doctor target kill, but. Just a thought. I think I lean closer to assuming lovers tbh because having an SK in a group of ten seems like an easy way to speed up the game (lol) but it's definitely not totally and completely out of the question. Again, heaps more likely than the doc scenario.]

I propose the idea of a possible heal clash mechanic

[[Nevermind, I was thinking of Vigilante, not strongman. My bad!]]

Starlight corrects herself

"I don't think so." Maressa shook her head. "This game only has ten players in total. Two doctors would be a lot, wouldn't it? There's probably two, maybe three, people on the killing side? If we're not counting a serial killer, at least. That would leave six to seven people on the non-killing side. One cop, maybe a role cop, and a doctor, and possibly two lovers would already make five roles. One or two powerless players isn't out of the question, but I think that two doctors is unlikely."

Also disputes my heal clash idea

Stygian looked impatient. "There are two options. Either one kill was performed, and two died because they were 'lovers.' Or two kills were performed. We have no sign for or against a Bodyguard either way. It is exactly as likely as it was when the list of possible abilities was given." Yes, it was possible that the group had lost a bodyguard, but there was no evidence of it yet.

"And," Stygian added, "if those two who died were lovers, then that means there are no more lovers, so we don't need to worry about them." There would not be two sets of lovers. The Voice in her head seemed quite sure of this.

[[Alright so I guess teeeechnically it's possible that we had two shots--the mafia and an SK--and also the game has lovers (who would therefore still be alive.) But, uh. I don't think that's too likely. That's a lot of things for such a small vanilla game.]]

Chibi surmises more about how two people died. They did flip scum, but I do agree that having two scum, an sk, and lovers in this small game is......highly unlikely. One or the other for sure.

"Why should we believe that either of the eliminated players performed a killing action? It's no more likely that either of them were a vigilante than any surviving member of Town. This conjecture is..." He made a face. "Unsubstantiated; unnecessary; unimportant."

Jackie disputes idea that one of the eliminated parties is a vig

"I wouldn't be the least bit surprised – provided they were limited to odd nights. It's more likely than a vigilante, two Doctors wiith 'heal clash', a Mafia team of three with no Third Party, or a Mafia team of two with no Third Party. My intuition tells me that two Mafia and one Serial Killer would be a perfectly reasonable composition."

Proposes the idea of the odd night SK

Whiskey's thin, bitter smile returned for a moment. Whether she turned out to be an ally or an enemy, the absol called Blackest River was among the most astute participants. He nodded slightly towards her to indicate his agreement.

"Exactly."

And agrees with something Chibi said

Whiskey shrugged. "I think a pair of Lovers are an entirely plausible aspect of the game. It's even possible that we have both a pair of Lovers and a Serial Killer in the game, though I don't think it's as likely as having only one and not the other. In a Mafia game configuration, both Lovers and Serial Killers are both a means of increasing the difficulty of the game for Town without making the Mafia larger. Note, of course, that Lovers can be Tragic Lovers, but I doubt that's true of this game."

He sighed, and examined his claws. "Odd Night – or Even Night for that matter – are not especially unusal modifiers to apply to Serial Killers or Vigilantes. I honestly couldn't say whether our local Mew considers that 'vanilla' or not. I wouldn't bat an eye at it, though."

He coughed lightly, and made a conclusive gesture with his palms up. "The fact of the matter is that we have very little concrete evidence of any one explanation for the loss of two players over any other, but simpler explanations are more reasonable to assume than complicated and unusual ones. We can debate what constitutes 'complicated and unusual', but speaking for myself, I think it's vanishingly unlikely that a Vigilante eliminated anyone last night, or that the Mafia performed two kills. I think it could have been that the Mafia eliminated a Lover, or that both the Mafia and a Serial Killer each performed an elimination. And that's that."

Explains reasoning more; I do notice from this wording that it seems like they might be leaning more toward two killers

"It seems only one of us has yet to comment on the state of play. I intend to force them to. I vote for @FauxFox."

Votes FauxFox to get them to talk

"Espurr, what are your thoughts?" Stygian asked, ruby-red eyes fixed on the psychic cat.

@SparklingEspeon

Chibi tags Espy to get them to talk

"If it was a strongman, then..." she trailed off. "...Why? No-one would have any special information on the first night, so why use it on a random target? That seems like it'd be a waste.

"But on the other hand... If the mafia were really two people, in a ten-person game wouldn't that be a bit hard? They'd have to eliminate six players to bring the game to parity, all without losing any of their own. And if there was a neutral killing element, there's no guarantee that would work out for them. Both vigilantes and serial killers would happily kill mafia too. So doesn't it stand to reason that there's likely to be three mafia? And maybe they did get lucky and hit lovers, or were dumb and used a strongman kill up-front. But killing two people a day regularly feels like it would throw the game out of balance."

Espy comes in with something about a strongman, which I'll chalk up to being out of the loop (same bestie). Still having difficulty understanding how we came to the thought process of "two kills = someone might have been a strongman," I'm going to assume it was a mix of Star's tongue slip and general role mixup. But afair strongman just means they bypass a protection like doc heal.

Jean's head hurt. There was so much thinking in this game and not enough action. "But isn't option four just the same as options one and three? Nothing's different if the one who killed one of them was the other one." She paused. "Although... Mew told us they were both innocent, didn't she? So I don't think one of them can have been the serial killer."

I'm p sure this was Free responding to Tetra's ideas? I just marked this because they pointed out yet again that Seren and Wind flipped town

"If there's a serial killer they probably can't kill every night," Jean said. "Like Mr. Whiskey said. But..." She furrowed her brow. "I think if they can kill every other night, Mew should've make the game so the first night is one of the ones where they can't. It's not fair if two people don't get to play properly."

The two Absol were prodding for the people who hadn't said much to do so. That was good. They should hear from everyone. But...

I also liked this; if there WAS a night-specific modifier on the SK, then why would it start off on a night where they *could* kill? Seems largely for the game ending as quickly as possible? (Unless thats the goal, idfk)

Jean took a deep breath, heart pounding. "No! We shouldn't vote for them. Because..." She pointed decisively at Stygian. "You! You're the strongman killer! I saw it last night!"

THE BEEG EGG DROP

"You seem pretty convinced about there being two killers. I admit, I Don't think that the vigilante theory I had is holding any water. But why are you in favor of two killers over Lovers?"

Star pokes Jackie about why they're leaning "2 killers" so heavily

"If Kari and Anti-Bravo-Man were lovers, then they definitely weren't Tragic, since they both were considered innocent."

Also points out again that Seren and Wind both flipped town

"Now hold up." The Zorua looked up, leaving a bit of a daze. "It is perfectly normal to be shocked when you find out that some people you just saw are suddenly dead. My apologies for not commenting on the state of things, but considering this scenario we are in, I find the fact that you seem to consider others disposable a little... how do I say this... questionable. Any reasonable townie would want as many to survive as possible." Theo rebutted. "So I vote for @unrepentantAuthor ."

FauxFox doesn't understand the meta rn and votes Jackie back

Jean shook her head rapidly. "No! I saw that she's a strongman. I don't see which team they're on but it makes no sense for a good guy to be a strongman in this game. Not when it's supposed to be vanilla." Vanilla was a weird word for it. It wasn't like a game could have a flavor. But Mew had put that into her head, that this was called vanilla and that was what it was supposed to mean.

Rolecop confirm

"You're not surviving the night. But you already knew that," the Absol said in a low, cold voice. Then, she turned her face skyward and said. "Mew! I am done with your ridiculous game! Take me away from this cursed place!"

Chibi makes no move to defend herself

"I vote Stygian, then, as I must."

Jackie votes Chibi

[[Whiskey's a stern type given to lectures, but OOC, I don't mean to come across harshly. Hi, I'm Jackie, and I'm pleased to meet you! Let me explain: The 'meta' for Mafia games in TR very much involves targeting people with votes to procure reactions to gather information, and we have a history of inactive players in Mafia games and have learned to 'poke' them to try to elicit participation. That's what my ping was about, nothing more.]]

Explains meta to FauxFox

"I guess you have a point, even if I don't completely agree with it." Theo sighed. "And I think that two killers is likely too, especially since Stygian seems to have outed herself rather than try and argue, so she may have a teammate. That, or she is too honest for her own good."
"With that said, I too will vote Stygian."

[[Don't worry, I didn't think of what you said as harsh at all. I was unaware of the history of inactive players on these forum games, and figured that I would reply how I normally would when someone tells me I am too quiet in mafia, though I'll admit my response probably wasn't the most thought-out response. I'm pleased to meet you too, and thanks for the advice on the meta.]]

FauxFox votes Chibi

"Alright. Voting Stygian."

I vote Chibi

Of all ways to go out, Espurr wouldn't have expected... that. Before, there might have been some ambiguity in Jean's claim, but that was before the killer had given up the chase on their own. Not everyone was good at lying, she supposed. Wonders of a jester crossed her mind--did the absol want to get lynched? But this game wasn't supposed to have one of those, right? Maybe they really had decided to go out on their own terms.

Something about it still rubbed her the wrong way, but it seemed pretty clear cut...

Vote: Stygian

Espy put off by Chibi's lack of defense. Votes Chibi.

[[I'd be SHOCKED if there was something like that in a vanilla game honestly, I'd sooner believe Chibi just said fuck it but 🤷‍♀️ ]}

I respond to Espy suggesting it might be a jester (neither of us being aware of the role list fully, apparently lmao)

[[We were literally given a list of potential roles that might be in this game, in the signup thread:

Villager
Goon
Doctor
Cop
Rolecop
Bodyguard
Bulletproof
Strongman
Vigilante
Serial Killer
Lovers

No Jester etc.]]

Thanks Free <3

"If a Doctor or Bodyguard yet lives, then for goodness' sake, may they protect Jean during the night," huffed Whiskey.

True (Narrator Voice: This did, in fact, not happen)

[[Once more my speedreader illiteracy strikes again haha!! And me, forgetting the possibility of doctor or bodyguard: 🤡

Unless Seren and/or Wind was one of those roles which would just suck MASSIVE eggs ]]

Me being stupid

"I have to say, albeit with some hesitation, that I honestly don't believe the Kalosien is Mafia. I think if he were, he'd be intensely aware of the Doctor and Bodyguard roles."

It's okay, you are welcome to just call me airheaded 😂

[Vote: Stygian

Flygon votes Chibi

I was absorbed in ToD and I come back to this! Yoooooo this is off to a banging start I can't believe we got it first try.

Marked this because I noticed Flygon was particularly absent/lacking the level of ROBUST reads I usually see from her (not that I have any room to talk, I was pretty absent D1 myself but I digress), so I guess this could explain why but I'm putting a pin in it

"But normally a strongman just means they can kill someone even if they're being healed. It doesn't mean they get to kill a second person. And if it was separate, then why would she use it on the first night, when she had no idea who's important or who's going to get healed? I don't think she would've done that, not if she knows how the game works. And... and you said the same thing yourself before, so it's not like you didn't realize!"

Free explaining strongman

Probably town?
Maressa - I think the stuff she asked about at the start of the day sounded like she was town.
Noel and Espurr - They didn't know about the role list, but Stygian did, so it would be weird if they were on the same team. They could have been faking it, though.

Dunno...
Loaf - He seems a bit confused sometimes, but also he could be faking being confused so he can try to confuse everyone else.
Theodore - He's only said a little! So I don't really know a lot about him.

Mmmmmm
Whiskey - I don't like him, he's a Pokémorph but I don't! He and Stygian were always agreeing and saying good things about each other and he said some weird things, especially the thing about the strongman that's not the same as what he said before about the strongman. I have a really bad feeling! We don't have to talk about it now because we need to get rid of Stygian, and maybe I'm... Maybe he's okay and I'm wrong. But... but if I'm not going to be here for the next day in the game, I think you should be careful!

Jean sat down, hugging her knees, bracing for a retort from the Absol morph. She didn't want to make him angry. But he probably would be. The game was supposed to be fun.

Free reads, mostly agree with these rn with a few caveats

"No, you're quite right. I am well aware that the Strongman role is generally a one-shot modifier to the factional kill, as I showed awareness of to begin with. I did not believe that it was separate. Once we heard the claim that Stygian was a Strongman, my immediate assumption was that perhaps it had been configured as a separate killing role after all, and that the Mafia strategy – and justification for using the power early – was to get two kills early. Either selected randomly, or by some internal discourse about who would receive or not receive protection, and who was easier or more difficult to fool. I could not fathom the possibility of safeguarding the first factional elimination when the target may turn out to be a 'vanilla' Town!"

[[I've only been in a scumchat once, in Role Overdrive, and fairly briefly at that. It was a small, inactive chat, without daytalk, and one member was a factional traitor. I have no meaningful experience of scumchat discussion about this strategic choice, and I so firmly believe that I would want to save the Strongman kill for later, that I instantly believed that it had to be separate, because if it wasn't a kill-rush strategy, why do it? Perhaps that's naive, but that's what I was thinking.]]

Whiskey coughed, and had the nerve to look a little frustrated. "On further reflection, I suppose... the internal reasoning for using the Strongman role immediately may have been to guarantee any elimination whatsoever, then spending the Day phase identifying safe targets going forward? Perhaps Stygian," [[Chibi, that is,]] "believed her odds of surviving long enough to deploy her power in a targeted way were low enough to justify attacking blindly on the first night. I simply find it hard to imagine making the same call, were it not a separate elimination."

Perhaps he'd been right the first time, then, and a Serial Killer had indeed been present. A Vigilante, though? Heal clash? Unthinkable, surely.

Jackie speaks more on the strongman debacle and also recalls their scumchat experience.

If there's two scum, and one is a strongman, can they BOTH shoot? Or does the single strongman shot count as the nightkill for the team? It's the latter, right? Also seems unlikely to me that Chibi would just shoot willy-nilly like that, it doesn't seem like their play style.

I also don't understand how that reasoning leads back to "well maybe there really is an SK" and still not acknowledging that it could just be lovers.

"...It's a fair criticism," he said, after a lengthy pause. "Inconsistency is suspicious, and overt mutual support implies coordination. In truth, I rather wish I had been assigned the same faction as Blackest River. It would have been narratively compelling, would it not? The two absol, heralds of disaster, collaborating in their deceit. But no, I am regrettably embarrassed to have been willing to assume that because I could not find fault with her assertions, and because I preferred to believe that we would be aligned, that I am guilty of aesthetic bias."

Jackie defends self for aligning themselves so heavily with Chibi's reads and thoughts

"I... apologise. I should not let my guard down simply because I like a participant." His jaw twitched, and he looked away. "And so I shall not let my guard down around you either, young miss... though your observations are promisingly astute for your apparent age."

I'm sure this was just RP flavor, buuuuuut Jean calling out Chibi and Chibi basically just confirming it kind of makes it clear she's town aligned.....

"Well, I suppose I should leave my opinion for the group in the event that I am eliminated during the second Night phase. In the event that I am removed from the game tonight, which is not at all impossible, then my 'posthumous' opinion ought to hold some weight when my alignment is revealed, yes? Ahem. Not out of any particular confident suspicion, but simply because I associate waffling with a Mafia agenda, then with my present mindset, I would vote tomorrow for the dachsund. 'Loaf'. Mm."

Jackie casts sus on Flygon

"But... If you believe that Stygian is a bad guy, then it wouldn't make any sense for me to not be a good guy. I'm the one who revealed her. If I was on her team, that'd be really weird! And if I was something else like a serial killer, then how would I have known she was a strongman in the first place? That doesn't make any sense."

She shook her head and took a deep breath. "I still think you're one of the bad guys. But thanks for not being mad, Mr. Whiskey." She smiled hesitantly. "Don't worry. It's just a game. I'm glad I got to meet another Pokémorph. One who's grown-up! That's really cool."

Free defends herself

"I think the Serial Killer assumption is probably the best, alongside two mafia I bet." Theo shifted his gaze from Whiskey to Jean. "But I also think that Whiskey knows what he is talking about, and is probably one of the most intuitive ones here. I don't think he is bad, he probably just picked up the fact that you are a rolecop from something you said, though I don't think you are guilty either. Though my assumption that you both are innocent may just be wishful thinking, as we haven't truly confirmed anyone just yet." Theo paused. "I would say that you are the closest to confirmed, and if we have any doctors or bodyguards, they should probably protect you, assuming that Stygian is the only one with the Strongman ability based of what you said earlier, and assuming that you are in fact a Rolecop. And while you could be faking Rolecop, the fact that Stygian outed themself sort of counters that idea."

FauxFox gives thoughts but isn't really saying anything that isn't obvious or hasn't already been stated by another player.

[[quickpost b4 day closes. been thinking about this a bit, and I just don't know if I can picture chibi using a strongshot at the start of the game. I think(?) they've been scum before and its a bit of a silly play to blow a powerful scum power without knowing who you're using it on.

Also I wouldn't really say I'm waffling, its day one so I'm just speculating (honestly this being a vanilla game is somehow newer territory lol, I'm so used to some kind of madness, hah.

I'm trying to think what the most likely setup is and I guess SK could be here, and i can't stop fixating on if there is or not, because that could be pretty detrimental to town...

Also something else I haven't seen talked about is if this is 2 or 3 mafia setup? From my very poor understanding, it can't be four so...

3 scum, 1 SK, 6 Town? I'm not sure if that adds up... Two kills a night + whatever votes would happen during the day... It might be too much kills?
Or 3/7 setup? I think I can see that? Or finally, 2 scum, 1 SK, 7 Town? Unless there's 2 scum and 8 town?

For now I think 3 scum feels more... plausible? Someone will have to pipe in here though, balance and numbers and probability aren't my forte, I'm not sure whats normal for vanilla honestly.

That aside, my quick readlist right now is

Chibi: Scum (lol)

Fauxfox: Slighty unsure, since I haven't seen a lot yet. Will see tomorrow. Tiniest bit of leaning towards scum but this is rather early and you're new, I don't like to go hard without a good reason.

Starlight: Seems decent enough?

Jackie: Mixed at the moment, but leaning positive...?

Free: Town

Sind: LOVER SCUM (joking joking, not sure yet, neutral)

Espy: No proof, but I just have tiny curious sus vibes, waiting to see what tomorrow brings though.

This is a sloppy list though, I feel like with getting a fortunate rolecop night 1 we can get a lot of really useful info tomorrow so I'm saving my hope for that, assuming I even make it lol.]]

Reads and hypothesis from Flygon. I don't think I agree with the "three scum being plausible" theory, I'd sooner believe 2 scum and 1 sk, but I don't even think there's an SK, I straight up think scum just luckily shot the lovers. It's a small game, I cannot imagine there's 3 scum in a group of 10 but I could be wrong, as I am sometimes.

STYGIAN THE ABSOL HAS BEEN ELIMINATED. SHE WAS MAFIA.

Chibi flips scum.

JEAN HAS BEEN ELIMINATED. SHE WAS TOWN.

Jean gets killed. Clearly wasn't protected, or got bypassed somehow.

Is it possible all possible scum members each had a strongman shot? And whoever was left used it to guarantee Free died? I'm not sure I'm quite on board with the fact that, if we even HAD a doc to begin with, they're dead. And if it was a bodyguard, then, they'd have died in their place so that either means there isn't a bodyguard, the bodyguard died already, or our bodyguard just isn't paying attention.

"There goes the possibility that we have an attentive Doctor or Bodyguard," he growled, bitterly. "Very well – we must assume that no protective role survives. And we can not safely assume that we have a living Cop, either. Jean's Rolecop power was very likely our entire Info Role apparatus. Hopefully some living Town have a useful power. Do try to keep quiet about it, yes?"

I'll redirect to my above response as to why I disagree that the possibility of doc still being in play is gone. I wouldn't bet my life savings on it, but it feels a little too soon to automatically assume there isn't. Again, what if all scum had a strongman shot?

[[So did our Doctor die or something? I'm trying to wrap my head around this, I hope not but then if lovers are the reason two players died N1, how did our power roles miss protecting our rolecop. Noone should like, claim but I'm just... what?
Hhhh hmmm]]

Flygon asking questions, largely just seems out of the loop

"Why are you so sure that the first two deaths were Lovers? We still have no evidence for that, and at least one other perfectly sensible and applicable explanation. Obviously they were not Lovers, and two eliminations were performed, and we were unfortunate enough that one or both eliminated players were a Doctor or Bodyguard. Either that, or any surviving Town player with a protective power made a poor judgement."

Jackie fires back about it being lovers, but I don't understand this logic? I think I need to re-read what this was replying to cuz I don't remember, but just off the bat, idk why they're so sure it's NOT lovers

Probably responding to Flygon?

[[No I see what you mean, I'm just trying to figure out what happened... my first assumption this evening was lovers made most sense to me instead of SK or bad vig shot for N1. SK doesn't add up anymore to me since we don't have two kills again.

And I can't see the two kills as being an SK anymore, because it wouldn't make sense for an SK to not kill, right?

So either the vig theory is true and they held off killing smartly or I guess we have to assume the Strongman power was seperate from their regular kill?

Is strongman being seperate from the regular kill normal? is there actual precendence to think this is what happened? If that did happened it means chibi spent their strongman early which is... odd. Not impossible but it does feel weird.

Like basically there 's the two kills for scum theory, the vig/SK theory, or lovers.

With SK feeling less likely, its between lovers and double scum kill. I guess dual scum kill must make more sense than a negligent doctor. Because otherwise free would be alive.]]

1.) I'm largely in disagreement of it but mafia is crazy, there is still a small possibility it's a specific night killing SK.
2.) Am I stupid and did I miss something? What vig theory? Why do we have to assume strongman was a separate power? ISn't it usually just a modifier? I have a hard time believing it would be a whole ass separate power?
3.) Again, WHAT IF ALL SCUM HAS A STRONGMAN MOD??? Y'all are jumping to conclusions without thinking about other factors.

"Or both the Serial Killer and the remaining Mafia both targeted Jean in the night!" he declared. "Or I was right about Odd Night Serial Killer, and they had no elimination action last night! Or they did target someone else, but they were protected by sheer chance!"

He raised a hand, suddenly alarmed.

"Ah. If the Serial Killer and the remaining Mafia did both target Jean in the night. It wouldn't matter if a Doctor protected her. She would be dead anyway."

He shook his head sadly. Then glowered at Loaf.

"It appears you don't want us to consider the possibility of a Serial Killer. The gravest assumption I can make as to why is that you are yourself said role. Perhaps I am wrong. But if not, I shall be glad to have voted for @Flyg0n."

Jackie speculates about role possibilities and votes Flygon.

I'm gonna be dead honest, I have a hard time believing, in the event an SK is in the game, that they would ALSO go for Jean. They should know damn well that mafia is targeting Jean themselves so why, if they can even kill every night, would they waste that chance to lower the numbers in their favor, to double down on a player thats KNOWN that mafia would want dead? Not to mention, can rolecops even discern third parties like an SK???? So even if scum DIDN'T kill Free, Free's would have been no real threat to an SK, so again, why waste an action on it?

[[I'm sorry what? So apparently trying to speculate and eliminate possibilities is bad and means I'm sus now. Okay. Hm....

I'm concerned how Free was at least slightly suspicious of you before she died. If your sole onus for voting me is because I ispeculated that it doesn't seem likely there's an SK based on my understanding of events thats bizzare. considering free's last thing was sussing you I'll gladly vote for you.

In fact I'm not a fan at all of your behaviour, you talk as if you know more than you let on and get aggro about people making deductions.... you talk as if you know scum can do these things.

Also I didn't even know thats a thing, double killing. Do we even know thats the case in this game? So if SK and scum both target someone it overrides a doctor? How can I be sus for just throwing things out there when we don't even know for sure about the mechanics of the game?

Explain to me the logic of an SK killing N1 and not N2 if you think thats not the case. Unless maybe it is the odd night thing but thats not really common for a vanilla setup, at least afaik? or maybe it is, I've done a half a vanilla game I think.

vote: jackie/unrepentantauthor]]

Flygon votes Jackie back, susses their behavior and honestly I agree with SOME points.

"Yeah..." said Espurr suspiciously, perching on her stump. The absol-man was quite neurotic and twitchy, but he was speaking sense. "If I were a serial killer, I would have targeted the rolecop first - it's far by the largest threat. And if I couldn't kill on that day, the mafia simply would have taken them out for me. It's a win-win, and all I'd have to do to buy more time was make sure no-one thought I existed. At the very least, there's no sense at all in ruling it out... unless I didn't want people to think about it?"

That doesn't make sense though, if they know mafia is going for them, why??? And I looked on the mafiascum wiki, serial killer would give a rolecop the same response as rolecopping a vanilla townie, so knowing that, why go for them when your wincon is eliminating everyone else? Waste of a move imo. If anything, if I were the SK, I'd want to keep a rolecop alive to sniff out scum, works more in SK's favor. I'd understand if there were MULTIPLE roles that got outed and just targeting a role to get them out of the game to deplete numbers, I guess, but SK should have better things to do???? Wincon is to be the last person standing, targeting the only player that scum would 100% want dead is counterproductive to that.

I also want to bring this up as supporting evidence for the existence of an independent killing element - even if mafia had some kind of second kill lying around, a mafia with at least one (1) experienced player in it probably wouldn't blow that kill on night one with no info unless they thought they had to go scorched earth immediately, or gambled in hopes they'd hit a powerful player.]]

I do agree with this, if there was only one strongman kill or they happened to have an extra kill, can't imagine they'd just balls to the wall it right out of the gate. I guess it's not totally out of the question, but an experienced scum player would probably advise against it unless they indeed wanted to test their odds

"If there is a serial killer," started Espurr, "then I'm partial to the odd night theory. Two guaranteed kills a night would end the game within three days, faster if there was a mislynch. But one kill alone would leave the mafia high and dry if we managed to pick one of them off early. If we assume town didn't also have night-killing powers, it doesn't seem like a very fair stackup to me either way, does it?"

Yeah I can agree with this--again, I cannot keep stressing that I think scum got lucky with the shot and hit lovers--but if there is an SK, sure, probably night modified just to give them a small handicap as not to wipe the game in two nights. Idk how a vig would balance that though because a vig could kill anyone, including town.

[[We know that Jean was town, so that means Free's reads are genuine and not misleading. The reason I bring this back is because it's not very clear to me how the jump in logic from "strongman modifies the kill" to "we know there was a strongman, so mafia performed two kills" was made, and now we're back to "there was obviously an SK, and you're on the block for suggesting there couldn't be". Scum would have an interest in killing the SK, but scum would be equally okay, or more okay even, with letting a mislynch happen under the guise of "SK". For now, trying to dismiss the possibility of an SK is a bit more concerning to me, but this is also something to think on.]]

Totally agree with this here, there's a lot of jumping back and forth between these ridiculous ideas that I'm not a fan of, and it feels like a lot of smoke blowing. I'm trying to get to the bottom of where it all stemmed from Star's role mixup between vig and strongman, Jackie giving PARAGRAPHS explaining their logic about what is and isn't, and Flygon chiming in with largely confused takes.

"I don't believe it's worth the effort on my part to pick apart your poor reasoning and unsupported conclusions. Jean may no longer be with us, but surely there is someone incisive and rational still participating, who will go to the trouble of comparing us and coming to a sensible conclusion about which of us makes more sense."

[[Have a readlist, folks. Of note, I really like that last post by Espy. Feels Towny.]]

Readlist from Jackie. Couldn't quote it but, just follow the link.

"There's one more thing. Have any of you asked yourselves why Jean was a Rolecop and not a Cop? Perhaps it's for the sake of balance – Cops can get lucky and shut down a Serial Killer immediately, but the same is not true of Rolecops."

[[From the Mafiascum wiki:]]

Jackie also points out the rolecop vs. SK thing

[[I had previously not really thought this to be a reasonable thing (mostly because I guess I had assumed that wouldn't be vanilla) but it actually does make sense. It would track that it would have to be odd or even SK... Maybe more than vig? I guess nothing is technically off the table though...

I still want to know more about this supposed SK + Scum targeting Free = breaking through a doctors healing because I've never heard of that mechanic before and its oddly specific and interesting to me... I'll have to google this myself]]

Flygon questions the probability of SK and Scum breaking a doc protect.

[[Okay wait nvm I found it under the doctor listing... fascinating, I did not know this, good to know.

So maybe that is how free died, it would certainly be more likely now than a negligent town...]]

Finds it

[[From Mafiascum again. First line on the page. Pretty sure Doctor failure by this method has actually happened before in games Tetra has played in but I don't know where to go look for a specific example, so I can't be sure. And it was super relevant that two shots overcame Bulletproof protections in Humble Vale, under the same logic as this, and Tetra was in that.]]

Again again again is it out of the question all scum had strongman kills

Maressa frowned. "You're making several assumptions, here. First, why do you say she was unprotected? We knew that Stygian had a strongman ability. These abilities can be transferred among Mafia party members when one dies, right? Once Stygian died, it's likely that the power was transferred and immediately used.

"You're also saying it's likely she was our only information role. What makes you say that? You also think we have no protective powers among us, but like I said--she was probably subject to a Strongman kill."

Can't be transferred but I'd say its not out of the question they all have a strongman shot (can you tell i am rotting on this hill how has nobody mentioned this)

Maressa nodded. "Then I guess we have a few possibilities:

1. There were two kills on the first night.
2. There was one kill on the first night, and the two deaths were Lovers.
3. There was a no one protecting Jean last night, either a negligent Doctor OR no Doctor at all
4. Someone tried to protect Jean last night, but it was a Strongman kill
5. Someone tried to protect Jean, but two people tried to kill her and one of the kills went through

THANK YOU STARLIGHT

[[Or at least, this would be the first I've heard of it. In some games, the factional kill transfers in this way, but that's between Goons, and it's specific to that power, and it's not true of all games. Also, if Strongman transfered, wouldn't that just mean the Scumteam could always ignore all protections forever? What would be the point of having Doctors? What on earth...??]]

More speculation from JAckie

Well we can assume that there was a second mafia based on how Stygian didn't try to deny anything. If there are two mafia, is it possible that they were both able to kill night one, and there is no serial killer?" Theo proposed. "And if that is the case, is it possible that we have an odd night serial killer, and another mafia, and maybe both the serial killer and one of the mafia hit the same target night one?"

I mean maybe they both were allowed to kill night one, idk how likely that is. Ig I find it more likely than them both having extra shots and just CHOOSING to both shoot N1. Also it sounds like the latter part of this point is reiterating what was already said.

"And if anyone does have a useful role, take Whiskey's advice and keep quiet about it, at least until you can out someone as guilty." Theo added. "If you out yourself now, you will just make yourself target number one for our killers here. Though I guess there is always the chance of all vanilla townies and a killer or two left, in which case this is all just social deduction now."

More reiterating

"And Stygian is very clever at games like these. She was Mafia, but if she was concerned about a second killer on the loose, I'd hope we could trust her word. Mafia would be as concerned about a serial killer as the Innocents, wouldn't they?"

I mean that could have easily just been smoke-blowing.

"I think what Whiskey said about there not being a Vigilante the first night makes a lot of sense. If there is a Vigilante in this game, I don't think he's acted yet. So I think we're back to one of two options: Lovers, or a third-party kill.

"If it was Lovers, then there was no second kill. If it was a third-party kill, then someone tried to protect Jean, and one kill broke through protection."

She narrowed her eyes at Whiskey. The Absol-morph had always unsettled her, and it wasn't just because it was a humanoid not-human. "I know I said a lot of incorrect things. But you were the first to present the Serial Killer theory, and you've latched onto it ever since. What is your reasoning for thinking that a Serial Killer is more likely than lovers? You seem confident that we're likely to have a Serial Killer but not a Vigilante. Wouldn't a Vigilante make more sense?"

Star speculates and questions Jackie again. I agree though, if there is a vig, I would bet they have an X-shot mod (X being a number) and would prob avoid wasting a shot on something random, especially if they only have one or two (honestly can't parse them having more than that but what do i know).

"Honestly, I forgot that we started on Night Zero, maybe an even night Serial Killer? The would possibly explain why we only had one kill last night. I guess the number of kills tonight will clear up how many killers are left. I think Stygian was the only Strongman on the mafia though, and at this point we probably just don't have any town protective roles left, so no one could protect Jean last night."

THis again just feels like reiterating.

I'm feeling the most concerned about Whiskey, although he's also been the most active. Theo and Espurr had some good points. I feel like I haven't heard of from Noel--though I'm not sure I want to..."

Noel shot the girl a look. "Huh? I've said five words to you, sis," he scoffed. "I guess nobody's here to make friends, but shit, didn't think I was that rude to you."

[[Alright so as per usual with my lonk posts, there's always a chance I spedread over/misunderstood something. Also a chance I misremembered why I grabbed a response because these take so long i forget what i grabbed until i get to it. So if I misread please feel free to clock me about it. This is also all filtered through MY lens so while I do mark for posterity and catch-up sake, I also mark to comment my own feelings.

That said, I'll use this to get into my readlist.]]

Town-y Vibes:

• Espy: I like her longer posts and the questions she was asking, even though there were some instances where I had to question her logic.
• Starlight: Have also felt pretty good about the posts they've been making; I do want to go back to last anni mafia and read their playstyle again there because they flipped scum and I remember feeling pretty good about them at first. Will reevaluate.

Opposite of Town-y Vibes:

• FauxFox: Gonna be dead honest, in the few posts they've made, they've pretty much only reiterated things that were already said and discussed. I think they gave ONE thought but everything else was just regurgitation. Can't tell if just a new player or fumbling scum. I'm not one to give hefty BotD to new players anymore because I did in a previous game (with Seren no less) and they flipped scum. So. Would like to hear some actual thoughts from them that aren't just coattail riding.
• Flyg0n: I will give BotD, I know she's coming off of being sick and was pretty preoccupied with ToD at the beginning, but even so, I'm seeing a little less than I'm used to from her. Granted, she has come up with some possible solves for the game and has made a readlist, but her posts feel pretty barebones compared to what I've seen her do in the past. Her posts also feel majorly fumbly, in where I feel like she's asking a lot of questions that were either already gone over or just don't make any sense at the moment. I would even accuse that they're part of the reason for the confusing "strongman vs. SK vs. lovers vs. your mom vs. the devil vs. etc." thing because their seeming confusionposts just always appeared to loop back around to that somehow, or ask another question that perpetuated more confusion. Very smoke-blowy for sure, but right now I'd probably be the least surprised if, out of these, three, she was the one who flipped town.
• unrepentantAuthor: Said something about going with the easiest, least convoluted explanation but seems to be doing.....the exact opposite. From my backlog of reading, I feel like a lot of the confusing "strongman vs. SK vs. lovers vs. your mom vs. the devil vs. etc." shit stemmed from their long posts where they kept trying to double down on their insistence that there's an SK in the game, and it felt like they only double-backed when they got called out for some nitpicks in their logic. I also noticed that compared to other games, they were far less scum-hunty than I remember them being. Granted, there could be a chance that they were just "Saved by the Bell" in a sense that Free outed Chibi before they could get the chance to really tunnel in on someone like I've seen them do, but idk if I'm misremembering, but I recall them actively scum-hunting pretty damn early. It just felt a like a lot of "I'm right, here's why, nothing further" and no real tunneling until today.

There is also the whole "Jackie aligned themselves pretty heavily with Chibi" argument going around and while I largely am wary of that, I do want to point out that I was on a scumteam with Jackie--in that Role Overdrive game they mentioned earlier--and our rule of thumb before they were so bullshitedly killed was to not closely ally with one another, which is absolutely...not happened with Chibi. However comma, that was a year(?) ago, and they didn't exactly get to play very long in that game so I didn't get to see how we would have interacted with each other into the endgame. Their playstyle in that regard could have somehow changed (idk how but), and I also take into account that Chibi and Jackie are very good friends! Which is totally fine and awesome! But I could totally see a world where they got a little too overzealous because their bestie was spitting facts. I'll acknowledge that Chibi was pretty much the only person at the moment trying to avidly puzzle the game at that point, so maybe it made sense in the moment somehow, but I just wanted to point out the very apparent breaking of the "allying" rule we went by as scum. Food for thought.​

 

[FauxFox]

FauxFox: Gonna be dead honest, in the few posts they've made, they've pretty much only reiterated things that were already said and discussed. I think they gave ONE thought but everything else was just regurgitation. Can't tell if just a new player or fumbling scum. I'm not one to give hefty BotD to new players anymore because I did in a previous game (with Seren no less) and they flipped scum. So. Would like to hear some actual thoughts from them that aren't just coattail riding.

"When pretty much every possibility has already been mentioned, it is kind of hard to not reiterate, even if most of them are unintentional. I'm really just trying to keep information that I feel is relevant, like the possibility of an even night serial killer and a remaining mafia around. When you have no way of gathering information other than listening to everyone else, you tend to say things that others said. And I also don't recall anyone else proposing an even night serial killer, since everyone was throwing around the idea of an odd night killer. " Theo paused.

"I guess you have a point, even if I don't completely agree with it." Theo sighed. "And I think that two killers is likely too, especially since Stygian seems to have outed herself rather than try and argue, so she may have a teammate. That, or she is too honest for her own good."

"Aye, yo!" Noel sputtered. "Why are you gonna pull that shit when there's a literal confession on the line? That was a meta play to get you to talk because you haven't said a single word, not a definite vote out."

"Granted, you did say this after I both proposed the idea of a second mafia and shifted my vote towards Stygian rather than before, and you certainly would have had time to notice me saying that before your response. If anything, I would suggest that you are trying to find any reason for someone to be more suspicious than yourself, and seem to be regularly trying to shift the focus from the idea of a serial killer with ideas such as the doctor clash and denouncing the idea of a every other night killer. I personally feel that rehashing previous sensible ideas to keep them in circulation is of more use than either of those proposals of yours, and it seems like you are trying to blow the small amount of suspicion on me to a larger proportion to keep the suspicions off yourself, but that's just my two cents." Theo added.

 

[Sinderella]

"When pretty much every possibility has already been mentioned, it is kind of hard to not reiterate, even if most of them are unintentional. I'm really just trying to keep information that I feel is relevant, like the possibility of an even night serial killer and a remaining mafia around. When you have no way of gathering information other than listening to everyone else, you tend to say things that others said. And I also don't recall anyone else proposing an even night serial killer, since everyone was throwing around the idea of an odd night killer. " Theo paused.

He sighed, and examined his claws. "Odd Night – or Even Night for that matter – are not especially unusal modifiers to apply to Serial Killers or Vigilantes. I honestly couldn't say whether our local Mew considers that 'vanilla' or not. I wouldn't bat an eye at it, though."

Jackie says it right here. And if we are dealing with a night-specific SK, how would it be Even-Night if the SK killed on Night 1? That's an Odd Night. We don't KNOW if the SK killed N2 too because there's speculation scum and a possible SK both targeted Free and bypassed any possible doc protection, so that's up in the air too.

"Granted, you did say this after I both proposed the idea of a second mafia and shifted my vote towards Stygian rather than before, and you certainly would have had time to notice me saying that before your response. If anything, I would suggest that you are trying to find any reason for someone to be more suspicious than yourself, and seem to be regularly trying to shift the focus from the idea of a serial killer with ideas such as the doctor clash and denouncing the idea of a every other night killer. I personally feel that rehashing previous sensible ideas to keep them in circulation is of more use than either of those proposals of yours, and it seems like you are trying to blow the small amount of suspicion on me to a larger proportion to keep the suspicions off yourself, but that's just my two cents." Theo added.

[[ ?????????? I don't.....follow this reasoning whatsoever, I was just explaining that the vote on you wasn't a "you're scum and i want you out" vote, it was a "hey, this'll get your attention, say something" vote. Which was already doubly explained to you. And you aren't the only one to have speculated two mafia??? Pretty sure Flygon and Jackie and Free and I think even Chibi did long before you chimed in.

And as for finding people more sus, than me......most readlists that have mentioned me have pegged me null or towny. I haven't said too much until now, that's my fault, so I totally understand reading null. But finding sussy people??? That's....the point of the game. To point out people I think are suspicious. I genuinely have nothing to hide, so if you think I'm sus, please feel free to tell me more about why you think so.

I mentioned the heal clash because, like you, I felt most of my exact thoughts had been said already by others! That happens a lot! But I proposed that just as an additional, albeit unlikely, thing to consider. I genuinely believe that scum got lucky and shot lovers N1 and we're losing our minds about a potential night-specific SK that probably doesn't exist, but as I have also said, I am not ready to TOTALLY rule that out, I just think between that and lovers, it's more likely lovers.

And no, there was no "rehashing sensible ideas," people were literally going back and forth trying to recall what roles do what and that's time wasted on trying to figure out roles and not on scumhunting, which is ADVANTAGEOUS for scum because it gives town less time to deliberate and could increase the chances of a mis-elim. People who perpetuate the rehashing of these confusions are suspicious to me, because they're merely offering speculation toward possible roles and not toward who town needs to eliminate to win. ]]

 

[FauxFox]

[Main reason I've avoided the unlikely things is because the initial reaction to yours, and from the few games of Mafia I used to play at summer camps, I'm used to people proposing unlikely things to throw people off of them.
And for the people proposing it before me, I just genuinely didn't notice. And the reason I said even night is because two kills happened night zero, not night one, with zero being an even number. And before this game I didn't know what most of the roles did myself, and would have hardly been a help because of that, probably just causing more confusion, as I have only played this game in person with mafia, townies, and a doctor, so most of the rules here are foreign to me. I didn't continue the "what does each role do", and instead decided to stick to trying to figure out "which of these most likely happened." as I am playing with rules I myself am not used to. I too am trying to find suspicious people, my way of viewing people is just different from yours.]

 

[unrepentantAuthor]

[[OOC post]]

Too busy to effortpost or write flavour.
Sind's effortpost feels Towny. More confident about her.
FauxFox isn't pinging my (admittedly rusty) scum radar but he is posting a lot of very 'safe' things.
Note that when I voted FauxFox, Chibi didn't join the wagon, they voted for Espy, who has pretty Towny vibes to me right now.

It's okay, you are welcome to just call me airheaded 😂

okay airhead ❤️

Again again again is it out of the question all scum had strongman kills

I really do believe it is. That would be so unfair, and so weird!

that Chibi and Jackie are very good friends!

a second mafia

What was meant by this, by the way? I second scumteam would be bizarre for a Vanilla game, and a Mafia must by definition have multiple members. Or were you referring to the Serial Killer possibility?

[[/OOC]]

 

[unrepentantAuthor]

[[Quick readlist. Willing to vote Tetra (Flyg0n) or FauxFox rn. Sind and Espy effortposts don't ping as sus to me. Feel like Starlight probably isn't scum either but wanna chew it over some more. FauxFox isn't super sus or anything, I just read super safe posting as an attempt to evade notice and I think scum!Chibi voting for Espy instead of joining my wagon may be a clue that scumteam wanted to get attention off FauxFox. Am not only voting for Tetra because she doesn't think there's an SK, am voting for Tetra because she's posted a lot of very elaborate Pepe Sylvia energy stuff that makes no sense pushing very specific inductive reasoning and then tunnelled me for ostensibly doing the sam thing, which I do not believe I have been doing. And it's not just that she doesn't believe in SK (I haven't ruled out Lovers, contrary to what people have claimed), but that she seems to be invested in making it seem like an absurd possibility. If it's so absurd, why is it in the list of possible roles? Also, I would absolutely create a 2-scum 1-SK setup if I had ten players sign up, and I know I've said as much to Yellow before, and that's largely why I'm so confident but I can't exactly put that in Whisky RP lmao.]]

Flyg0n: Loaf [Dachsbun, Male] SUSPECTED SERIAL KILLER

Sinderella: Noel Massè [Human, Male] SUSPECTED TOWN

SparklingEspeon: Espurr [Espurr, Female] SUSPECTED TOWN

Starlight Aurate: Maressa [Human, Female] NULL, PENDING CLOSE READING

FauxFox: Theodore [Zorua, Male] SOFT MAFIA

unrepentantAuthor: Whiskey [Absol Pokémorph, Male]
Seren: Kari [Human, Female] ELIMINATED—TOWN [N1]
windskull: Anti-Bravoman [Human...ish, Male] ELIMINATED—TOWN [N1]
Chibi Pika: Stygian [Absol,Female] ELIMINATED—MAFIA STRONGMAN [D1]
Dragonfree: Jean Ambrose [Vulpix Pokémorph, Female] ELIMINATED—TOWN ROLECOP [N2]

 

[HelloYellow17]

Mew observed the discussion from above, tilting her head this way and that, sometimes putting her paws up to her mouth and giggling when an individual would get fired up. Oooh, this was fun! This was exactly the entertainment she’d been hoping for. So much intrigue and mystery!

She flipped upside down and hovered lower, closer to the fountain, bobbing around their heads nonchalantly as they debated with each other.

Then, after a spell of observation, she interjected into everyone’s minds. As thrilling as it was to watch everyone argue, they needed to be mindful of the clock—and the votes! With a flick of her tail, the fountain sputtered and showed the countdown once again, as well as:

HALFWAY THROUGH DAY 2. VOTE TALLY STANDS AS FOLLOWS:

• (2) Whiskey [unrepentantauthor/Jackie]

• Loaf​

• Maressa​

​

• (1) Loaf [Flygon/Tetra]

• Whiskey​

​

[[OOC note: To make it easier for me to keep track, from now on please ping me when casting a vote!]]

 

[unrepentantAuthor]

Villager
Goon
Doctor
Cop
Rolecop ☠️
Bodyguard
Bulletproof
Strongman ☠️
Vigilante
Serial Killer
Lovers

Whiskey rubbed the pad of one thumb along the edge of his horn as he thought.

"We had ten participants. Two roles are publicly known. We each know our own, naturally. And we have six living participants...."

[[OOC. I am making a series of assumptions I consider reasonable.]]

1. Town was 7-strong to begin with. (I would consider anything less unbalanced, knowing that a 2-elimination night was possible at least once – imagine if on Day One we were already at eliminate-or-lose lmao – and anything more would be cruel to the Mafia.)
2. We probably only had one info role, and therefore have no Cop. (Any more than that would be very powerful! Our info role was Jean, and she was Rolecop for balance considerations.)
3. Chibi was the only Strongman. (Multiple Strongman uses is just hideously unfair. Why even have Doctor/Bodyguard/Bulletproof??)
4. If a Bodyguard existed, they were Wind or Seren, and are now dead. (A living Bodyguard should have intercepted a kill meant for Jean, unless something dumb and weird is the case.)
5. If a living Doctor exists, then two eliminations were performed on Jean last night. Also, a living Doctor may not actually exist.
6. At least some of us are Vanilla roles – my gut says 2-4. (It would be weird to advertise a Vanilla game with Villager and Goon on the role list and then have the game be Role Madness actually.)
7. Two kills on Night One is best explained by a Serial Killer, or by Lovers, and I heavily favour the former explanation. (I would be aghast if a Vigilante shot blind, I don't think it's likely that scum can double-kill, and I will eat my hat – and then Yellow – if it was Heal Clash.)
8. If we have a Serial Killer, we probably don't also have a Vigilante. That opens up a potential 3-kill night!
9. If we have a Serial Killer, we probably don't also have Lovers. Ditto.
10. Same goes for Vig/Lovers.
11. I just don't think it's very likely that we'd have Lovers in a game this small. Plus, I just think Yellow doesn't like the role! Hell, they're listed at the very bottom of the list. Vibes, I know, but I think they're in the list mostly to pad out the list.
12. To rephrase the gist of the last few points: I believe two kills means one of SK/Vig/Lovers and I think Vig is impossible and Lovers are less likely than SK.

Villager
Goon
Doctor
Cop
Rolecop ☠️
Bodyguard
Bulletproof
Strongman ☠️
Vigilante
Serial Killer
Lovers

As for those last two, the protective roles? I think Doctor is an auto-include in a Vanilla setup, it's too classic not to have. And if we have the possibility of one or more two-kill nights? Well, that makes me suspect that that two or three protective roles could exist in the configuration. And that gives us something like...

1. Villager
2. Villager
3. Villager
4. Bodyguard
5. Doctor
6. Rolecop
7. Bulletproof
8. Goon
9. Strongman
10. Serial Killer

And that looks like an entirely plausible setup to me!]]

 

[unrepentantAuthor]

[[2-man mafia team with one member being a busy newcomer would also explain why Chibi immediately confessed instead of fighting Free on the role claim, possibly?]]

 

[unrepentantAuthor]

[[Where is the rest of Town? Come on, I'm effortposting here and it's dead quiet. @SparklingEspeon and @Sinderella are y'all gonna vote for someone off the back of those big posts or what?]]

 

[Sinderella]

[[Gurl I effortposted 7 hours ago and am only just now hearing from people, give me a moment]]