[MAFIA WIN] Team Skull Recruitment Mafia (5th Anniversary Mafia)

[Panoramic_Vacuum]

[[My one worry is that if this is a minesweeper setup and pasting DMs is legal that non-Doc players might have received copies in order to be able to fakeclaim. Holy shit, this is nefarious.]]

[[^^ bringing this up b/c Jackie flipped town. So, yeah...]]

 

[Starlight Aurate]

[[have we tossed the idea of fake role claim info being given to scum teams to blend in with the 90% doctor claim rate? Genuinely curious because again, I have a hard time believing *everyone* has the exact same role in this game and all on the exact same team. B/c ngl it feels like if you *didn't* get the doctor role you're automatically sussed and there's literally nothing to be done to protect yourself. Which... feelsbad? I dunno. I know I'm gone, so uh, good luck everyone.]]

[[Nah I agree with you that not all of the town is doctor claims are true, which is why I think I’m also a goner since I’m claiming it lol. I seriously considered doing a fake claim which I knew would get myself sussed and voted out just to throw more chaos into the mix since I’m probably gone anyway and confuse Sind for putting us through this.

I’m not way of you because you’re not a doc. I just don’t think it would make sense to have a mafia doc without heal clash (but hey, maybe there’s roleblocker doc, so who knows), and I don’t think anyone suspicious of you for shooting Shini since some people were a bit sus of him as well.

There HAS to be a liar among all the claims since we’ve only got doc, Vig and PGO which doesn’t explain last nights kill. I’m not 100% town on Chibi, Free or Yellow, which I know makes me sus since everyone else reads them as hard town. Or at least, Yellow thinks I’m sus since I’m not hard town for Chibi when she is. Which makes me wonder if their doctor claims are untrue and they’re working together.]]

 

[tomatorade]

[[From a purely meta perspective, I doubt fake rolecards because it requires such level of foresight that I'm not sure was considered when choosing roles. I could be wrong, of course, but predicting DM reveals and therefore giving mafia fake doctor messages to fool town would be wild 5000 iq shit, so I'm operating on the assumption that there are no fake DMs.

Besides, I think it's far more likely that some of the doctors who came out today are just lying. Doctor is the easiest role to claim today because yesterday revealed the setup of the game, essentially. Whole bunch doctors and implied doctor-affecting roles. Plus we haven't got a single mafia/bad role out yet, so for sure there's some liars in the mix.

Also, did literally everyone heal Free? No wonder doctors are overworked, Jack is coming into the hospital for a checkup every ten minutes lol. The healthiest mfer of all time.]]

 

[Dragonfree]

"All right, I went back through all my notes on Phoebe to see if anything stuck out in light of her claim. Let's see..."

Phoebe giggled. "I know I'd like to stick around! It's more fun that way, and I'm pretty sure I could be helpful, too. But only after the night happens..." She trailed off, realizing that meant they'd have to wait to see what sorts of powers people might have. "It's probably that way for most people here."

"Just stopping by the softclaim again, I found it kind of noteworthy that she said specifically only after the night happens. That's something that very specifically implies you can't help until the night is over. Does that describe a vigilante? Maybe it's just coincidental phrasing, maybe she just didn't think of the actual vigilante bit as helpful, so it's nothing concrete, but it did give me pause a little bit."

She tapped her cheek with a finger, looking thoughtful. "Unless there's concern that someone might come along at the last minute and break the tie. That'd be miiiighty suspicious, though!"

"This reads kind of weirdly to me every time I think back to it, almost like a reminder to your scummates to not do that? Though wouldn't you just put that in the scumchat? Unless maybe the mafia can't talk during the day? That's sometimes a thing, for some reason? But I don't know, may just be overthinking it. Also I think she explained at some point why she made this comment but I think I missed it."

When Phoebe heard that it was Cygnus who had left the group, she looked distressed, bringing a hand up to cover her mouth. She held it there for a moment before bringing it down to her heart, clenching her fist tight.

"She did act distressed about Cygnus, which makes a lot of sense if she was responsible and hoping he was mafia and then he turned out to be town. So that's definitely a point in favor of her story that she killed Cygnus. Doesn't establish alignment, though. Could have just been sowing the seeds of a vigilante claim, pretending to be upset about the death. On the other hand I guess picking Cygnus, who was kind of suspect on day one, is more of a town vig move."

"But maybe that's why poor Cygnus was targeted. If the thugs thought everyone's attention would be elsewhere, they'd know they could get a free kill."

"On the other hand, I'm sort of weirded out the vig who literally shot him is speculating this."

"Maybe without other evidence, it's safer to assume the simplest explanation? Cygnus was a straight up elimination with no interference for one reason or another?" She then looked doubtful. "I don't know, though. Maybe it's naive to assume."

"But it's probably safe to assume that Cygnus was taken out by the bad guys. You would ted, lhink if there was a Vigilante in the mix, they'd be feeling pretty bad right about now for making a mistake." She peered around the room, looking at everyone in turn, but lingering most on Stracion, then Victoria.

"Likewise here she's clearly actively advancing theories she knows to be false if she's actually the vig who shot him. She's even hinting she's got a vig read on either Stracion or Victoria? I don't know. Generally townies tell the truth as they see it, but going out of your way to fake a read on someone else as having the role that you have? That's at least unusual."

He sighed, looking up. "So all in all, results inconclusive. Still not sure about her. I'll check on Isaac next."

 

[Starlight Aurate]

Derek groaned and rubbed his temples. The pancakes were good, but sleep was catching up to him.

"We have to choose someone to go to the Dunce Room. You," he said, pointing at Isaac. "I never felt great about you, and don't think you are a homie-aligned trigger-happy redneck" (it hurt to use those phrases).

[[I gotta go to bed soon and don't know I'll be able to vote at EoD, so I'm casting the first vote tonight. I might change it in the morning depending on how things play out. Still a bit sus of Phoebe, Stracion and Rui.]]

@Sinderella

 

[Flyg0n]

[[Wait, something I've been confused about, PGO's can be town aligned? I actually thought for a sec Pano claimed bc they were mime lol. Guess not?

I have to admit I feel so lost this game (even more than usual lol) because its so unusual. The only one I can 100% trust is doctor Fauxfox.

Naturally at least one other doctor who came along later is lying, but unfortunate timing means even some people wanting a chance to prove it couldn't.

I do not really believe in fake rolecards though, I originally thought jackie could have had one but they flipped town and that feels so strange.

I'll have to try and review claims but... we have to vote someone today and I think that its between Pano, Tomatorade, and maaayyybeee yellow or starlight? However I've consistently always felt a little off about tomatorade so... Hopefully after work I can focus a little more]]

 

[Panoramic_Vacuum]

I’m not way of you because you’re not a doc. I just don’t think it would make sense to have a mafia doc without heal clash

[[I'm not sure who else has voiced how weird it would be to have a Mafia aligned doc in a game with no heal clash, so I'm just replying to the first one I saw, but I'm pulling this directly from the Doctor page on the linked mafia wiki provided by our GM:

It is not unheard of for Mafia to have Doctors of their own in games with Vigilantes, Serial Killers, or even rival Mafia factions. Their power is about the same in practice as that of standalone Town Doctors.

Like, I can't be the only one who's read this, right? And right before this passage in the same link:

Another broken combination involves two Doctors in the same setup; they can protect each other each Night and thus become immune to kills for the rest of the game.

There's something inherently broken about a set up with this many doctors. They can't all be town aligned, otherwise the scum team stands no chance. It's rigged from the start, and unless it's by design, (Sind I'm coming for your socks) there's gotta be some kind of check and balance in the form of either providing scum a way to break Immune Doctors or giving town a way to shoot themselves in the foot. Literally.

No one has any opinions on these? I can't be the only one who's read the doctor wiki page...]]

 

[Panoramic_Vacuum]

[[and before anyone says it, no, me being incredulous that Sind would make an invincible town set up that scum couldn't win is not me admitting I'm scum]]

 

[Sinderella]

Guzma had been keeping most of his comments to himself, more out of a desire to let the game run its course. However, at this point, he couldn't help but laugh.

"Look y'all, I'm not saying a word about what y'all got yourselves wrapped up in here. All I can say is," he eyed Derek in particular, having remembered his outburst the most vividly, "stay mad."

---

Votes:
tomatorade/Isaac - 1 (Starlight Aurate/Derek)

Not Voting: Panoramic_Vacuum/Phoebe, FauxFox/Spencer, Dragonfree/Jack, HelloYellow17/Rui, Chibi Pika/Stracion, Flyg0n/Anubis, tomatorade/Isaac

---

A little less than 7 hours until Night 3!​

 

[Dragonfree]

"All right, I went back through my notes on Isaac, too."

"Well, no point voting anybody out immediately. Don't know like, the team composition, but the goons cant be more than half of who's here--then they'd just win. It's bad odds--we're way more likely to vote out on of our own than one of them. Let's just chill a minute and try to reason this out. Unless anyone's got something they need to say before the first night?"

"Just thought this was a bit funny, I guess. I think it means he hasn't played Mafia a lot? He seems very unclear on what'd be a reasonable proportion of scum, just reasoning that they can't be more than half. Maybe that means he's not mafia, but he could also just be playing kind of dumb."

Well, so much for taking it easy. Isaac leaned back as far as he could in his chair, eyes on the blaziken man. Seems they had an agent of chaos in their midst. He took what might be the last quiet moment in a bit to power down a handful of chips and some soda.

"Well, there goes the no vote. Note sure if you can take a vote back, but you seem pretty confident, don't know if I have the bravery to challenge that." He huffed, but with an obviously amused lilt to it. "And who wants to risk a tie? Anyway, it's probably a good idea to let the poor dude you voted for get a word in."

"Again it feels like he hasn't played much. Trying to just sort of sit back and watch, which I don't super like, but I guess newer people do that a lot."

Waking up, Isaac expected more carnage. He'd felt some fear hearing this was a game of chaos, but only one person being marched off to the time out room seemed lucky, at the very least. Maybe the chaos came somewhere else. He cracked a smile imagining a whole town versus just one serial killer, but that seemed like a strange, unusual punishment for the poor bastard. Even for an eccentric like Guzma.

"Assuming there might not even be a mafia, just a serial killer, seems surprised at the lack of carnage. That might be a point in favor of him being PGO, since he'd naturally expect multiple kills?"

"There are some people who probably got information last night. I doubt they'd want to share right away, but I think we're gonna start seeing some motives come out now because of that."

"Here he's vaguely trying to draw out whether anyone got information, although he also says he doubts they'd want to share. I guess as PGO he'd be excited to see people start to claim targets, but also the mafia likes to get info on who to target."

"I'm trying to run through all the roles in play, here. I agree there was probably an intervention of sorts rather than a complete lack of third-party killers--kinda wouldn't be role madness otherwise--so there's potential for some bulletproof roles, there's the paranoid gun owner..."

[[the wiki says they can also be uncommonly bulletproof? which implies that normally they also die if they're shot? I dunno, someone more seasoned in this can correct me if I'm wrong.]]

"...which others have pointed out, could have got Cygnus if he tried them at night. And since he was homie, he could've been doctor or watcher or something. There could also be a juggernaut or serial killer. Or he just got got by the mafia, and the third party got blocked instead."

Isaac scratched his temple, trying to work through the information.

"I guess if there was a gun owner, they'd still be on town and either praying the mafia got them instead of another town, or trying to signal to town without alerting the mafia. So I kinda think there may not be a gun owner then. Could be wrong--maybe they are just playing it quiet--but I guess now I'm leaning on a third-party killer getting Cygnus. Anyway, looks like everyone's kind of on the same page to wait for some of the less talkative and sleepier members to chime in before votes start flying."

"This one's kind of interesting. It makes sense as PGO one of his first thoughts would be maybe he'd gotten Cygnus. He also talks about what the town PGO might be thinking and about how they might be trying to signal to town, while making it sound like he thinks there's no PGO. All in all I'm reading this post as pretty likely to be PGO attempting to do that signaling? So that does make him sound more legit. A mafia PGO would probably want to sow the seeds for claiming town PGO if they're clever, although if you read up on PGOs like he clearly did you would find town PGOs are said to often just immediately claim to avoid getting targeted by town. I guess it makes sense for someone to just think that sounds boring and rather want to try to catch someone in a lie or strike back at the mafia if they can, though."

"No, I don't think we've ever taken a stab at that. I mean, like Jack pointed out, Cygnus thought there were two mafia and a third party, but that was probably based on nothing. Or... whatever information Cygnus thought he had. There's gotta be at least two, I guess. But it might benefit us to assume there's three. At least so we don't get surprised."

[[Don't know what the regular ratio would be, I'd feel like definitely three for a twelve-person game, and we got a close eleven, so that's what I'm going off of. The wiki says 3-1 is a good ratio, which could mean either, but I have no clue if our devious overlord is following that lol.]]

"Here he does have a more reasonable idea of the proportion of scum, but sounds like he's just been reading the instructions better, so that probably makes sense."

"Been watching this exchange and I dunno, most of my suspicions on Anubis are from after being pressed. The initial vote train did not make sense to me, though that may just be me agreeing that just throwing votes out for no reason first day does not benefit the town and trying to suss not voting first day makes no sense. Now, it's kinda hard to say. It seems like he's letting something slip, or at least implying he might, and it's hard to say whether that's a genuine lifeline to tell us we're making a mistake or just bait to live one more night. To me, this feels too desperate, and if they were scum I'd expect them to have a stronger vote ready than just kinda going 'I dunno', but I could just be getting played here. Either way, I don't feel strongly about a vote on Anubis"

"This is a super wishy-washy paragraph and I don't like it."

"And if we're talking about inconsistency, I agree that Sriracha has been all over the place. Other people have floated the idea that he's the gun owner and I understand why they could think that, but like I said, I don't know if we've got one around, and trying to signal that you're the gun owner is a very easy way to get some sort of immunity from both town and mafia. Other than that, he's switched votes with very little pushback and just been a bit of a wildcard generally."

"Skeptical of Sriracha being PGO, which makes sense if he's PGO, and then he starts talking about how signaling that you're PGO is an easy way to get some sort of immunity. That sort of contradicts the idea he wanted to falsify claims, in that if he thought of it as immunity from both he's not going to be able to do that, although Sriracha did signal whole a lot harder than he did so he could've just been referring to that."

"I still don't feel great about Phoebe. Maybe she's pushing too hard on there being 'duos' at all. Like, it seems easy enough for the scum to not associate with each other. I don't think it's useful to try and psychoanalyse which people are agreeing. But this could also be pretty minor at the end of the day. And outside that, I have no suspicions at all. Stracian and Jack seem reasonable enough, though it also seems like it would be in the scum's interest to lead the conversation, and I think Victoria fumbled too obviously to be a big brain play, and Spencer and Derek are not huge movers that I feel like I should or am even capable of worring about right now."

"Still being pretty wishy-washy, but firmer about Victoria, I guess."

"I mean, what's the point revealing who each other doctored? You could just lie, unless they got a pgo or something and they want to reveal that."

"This one's kind of weird. It's like he's discouraging revealing who the doctors targeted, but that's the whole point of wanting to falsify claims as PGO? But he also brings up the potential for PGO to falsify claims in the same breath, in a way that's kind of suggestive of being interested in that specifically? I don't know, does feel a bit weird."

"What if there's no scum and just a bunch of doctors, a bunch of pgos and a serial killer or something? shit's wild, dude."

"Again bringing up the possibility there's no scum, which I guess is a line of thought a town PGO could have under the circumstances, but not really something you couldn't think as mafia."

"I mean, I've got a feeling I know who most people are at this point [[*cough* the entire emergency ward *cough*]], I think Stracion and Jack are safe even if Stracion's not a doctor, plus confirmed for Spencer and Anubis. Rui's kinda neutral, Derek hasn't said much, and I've always been sus on Phoebe based on vibes, so I guess now we wait for them to speak their truth."

"I'm very curious what he means about thinking Stracion's safe even if she's not a doctor. So you think she'd be fakeclaiming but still town? What's that supposed to mean? Still wish he said more about his suspicions than just sort of vaguely throwing out that he's suspicious based on vibes."

"Call it a vote of protest. I thought it was strange that, despite everyone pretty much agreeing that Victoria was not scum before that, now we were all clear to dogpile because they claimed doctor. probably just pressure on everyone else's part, to be honest. Only got a couple hours left, and the two original suspects in Anubis and Sriracha are suddenly clear, so you gotta vote the first sign of suspicion you have."

"Anyway, I thought they were telling the truth about being doctor and I voiced that I thought it was messed up after [[in ooc]], given we got three doctors right before, and I suspect there being a potential three or so more. I missed the whole reveal fiasco [[you can go back and read the logs, I say when I'm stepping out]]. My vote wasn't changing anything. Putting it on somebody else would've been suspicious, so I shot myself."

"I guess I like the consistency of sticking to thinking the town slip from Victoria cleared her, although obviously scum can really easily do that when they know for sure every innocent getting votes is innocent. Not a huge fan of not voting someone else because it 'would've been suspicious'. Voting for someone who's not the leading train isn't suspicious, and as town, you don't want to be choosing who to vote for depending on what makes you look suspicious. Feels almost too obvious."

I still stand by Chibi being safe even if no doctor.

"Still really curious what you mean by this. If you trust Stracion, why not trust her doctor claim? I would almost think you're actually lovers except we were promised there wouldn't be any."

[[I need to run for a couple hours, but all in all mmmmmmhhh]]

 

[Starlight Aurate]

I think Stracion and Jack are safe even if Stracion's not a doctor, plus confirmed for Spencer and Anubis. Rui's kinda neutral, Derek hasn't said much, and I've always been sus on Phoebe based on vibes, so I guess now we wait for them to speak their truth."

[[So you think that Stracion may be lying about her role, but are still convinced she's town?

I just don't get why several people are determined that Stracion is Town? Rui is suspicious of me for this, but I don't feel like I'm overly fixated on Stracion, just that she doesn't feel particularly Town because I haven't seen many things that are super helpful from her, imo. I'll try to go back and read through while I'm at work/on break. But Isaac's defense of "yeah Stracion may be lying about being a doc but I trust her anyways" has me going HNGGGGG]]

I chose to aim at FauxFox because I still am/was leery of Anubis. Yes, Anubis protected FauxFox last night, but we have no way of knowing if FauxFox actually protected Sriracha.

[[The wariness of FauxFox and choosing to shoot him is one thing that REALLY gives me pause. I'm wary of anyone who doesn't trust Anubis and Spencer because their claims are pretty much impossible to fake (if any doc thinks either of them are fake, I'll know they're a fake doctor because their role PMs match the one Sind wrote for docs WORD FOR WORD). And you chose to shoot Spencer the SAME NIGHT that Sriracha died, so you couldn't have known that Spencer's protection would have failed yet. Also, if you were wary of Anubis, why not shoot him? Why go for Spencer?]]

[[Wait, something I've been confused about, PGO's can be town aligned? I actually thought for a sec Pano claimed bc they were mime lol. Guess not?]]

[[Wait why are you saying Pano claimed to be a mime? She never said that, did she?]]

Like, I can't be the only one who's read this, right? And right before this passage in the same link:

[[... well I've read it now 😂 Thank you for clearing it up! And my apologies if I came across as rude.]]

There's something inherently broken about a set up with this many doctors. They can't all be town aligned, otherwise the scum team stands no chance. It's rigged from the start, and unless it's by design, (Sind I'm coming for your socks) there's gotta be some kind of check and balance in the form of either providing scum a way to break Immune Doctors or giving town a way to shoot themselves in the foot. Literally.

[[Yes, I agree that a setup with this many doctors should be broken. But, we've still had a death every night! So there IS something balancing it all out. Either one/some of the docs are lying, or their heals have been ineffective/misaimed/penetrated.

I DO believe that some of the doc claims are untruthful, just not Spencer's or Anubis's since theirs are impossible to fake. It's also why I'm not pushing my 'guys, believe me, I'm a doc' because I feel like that makes me look scummier than anything else right now 😂 ]]

Derek glared at Guzma. "I am mad! I came here looking for a new job, not to play psychological games! Maybe if I was planning to go into psychiatry, sure, but..." He looked around and took a deep breath.

"Okay, we started with 11 players. There are probably three thugs, right? And potentially a third party--actually, if there's a third party, it'd likely just be two thugs. I don't think there's a third party, though, considering that we've had only one death per night. I'm agreeing with what Spencer said: the thugs have a roleblocker and a killer. So, last night, Spencer was probably blocked and Sriracha was killed--er, sent to the Dunce Room. It's also possible that it was a strongman kill--sentence--but what would the other thugs be doing? There probably isn't a bulletproof, unless Phoebe really is a trigger-happy redneck. And I haven't seen anything that would make me think there's swapping happening, though if all of Town has the same power, I guess we wouldn't know."

"Also, if Phoebe killed Cygnus night one, then who were the thugs targeting? Did the doctors actually prevent a kill, even though only three people were targeted by doctor heals?"

He looked at Isaac and Phoebe. "I really don't feel good about you two. I'm... hesitant with Rui and Stracion. But for now, I'll leave my vote where it is."


[[Also, throwback to Yellow predicting this 3 years ago:]]

[MAFIA WIN] Second Anniversary Fanfic Mafia - Game Thread

[[Was reading back over the messages analyzing the Mafia!Nefari theory aaaand—I done goofed. I was informed of my roles on N0, but did not need to choose which one until N2. I think I misunderstood what you were asking originally—my bad!]] [[ N2, specifically? Nothing about four innocents...

forums.thousandroads.net

 

[Chibi Pika]

"Mandatory-shot vig is a convenient story I guess, but I dunno if it's something Phoebe would be likely to pull outta thin air," Stracion said with a shrug. "But it does seem like what Guzma would could up with, and it also feels like something that kinda needs to exist for this setup to make any sense. And shooting Cygnus was def pro-homie move there cause it saved us a day of arguing about him and there were no other leads."

"But then, there's that stuff Jack brought up about her, which yeah, it's weird."

"Not really buying the thing people are saying about a hater doc being useless without heal clash, especially if it'd heal their buddies from rednecks."

"Also, like, the bad guys could just have more than one strong shot. It's been a thing. Maybe us docs are just glorified Visitors at this point, lmao." (Yeah, yeah, I know at least one of us saved someone Night 1).

She leaned back in her chair. "Aaanyway, the setup just doesn't work if everyone's a doc, there's gotta be stuff like a Vig or a PGO or whatever, so I thiiink I'm leaning toward voting out a claimed doc rather than one of those. Derek being all super duper sure about Anubis and Spencer and really miffed that anyone could still sus them... is actually making me feel a bit better about him? Huh."

 

[Chibi Pika]

I do not really believe in fake rolecards though, I originally thought jackie could have had one but they flipped town and that feels so strange.

"Yeah, I was big time in the camp of thinking fake role cards were a thing because it was weird when 'Racha suggested showing 'em, and then it turned out to be allowed?? But then he flipped homie, so there went the idea of him using it as some kinda ploy." The whole sentence was said through a mouthful of bbq chips.

 

[tomatorade]

"Speaking to Jack's questions about my trust of Stracion, admittedly it's still very much vibes-based. I trust that she's town because she acted essentially as I would expect town to act, she's talked rationally and made good points and been consistent throughout. If I were to rank my town trust level she'd be like, third or fourth after the confirmed doctors."

"That being said, I think there definitely is at least one other town power role who isn't doctor (First kill also could've been one, but no way to know now). Phoebe is claiming vigilante, which I have no concrete way to disprove. But if they weren't vigi and were instead mafia, Stracion is my other choice. She's one of two members aside from you that have built up the trust and so could reasonably claim a role then claim something else after without losing face. My theory, then, is that she came out as doctor early today to kinda kickstart the role claim train and either do essentially what I did and call someone out who healed because they're pgo [[which may not make sense. I have not had the time to go back and track who eveybody's claimed healing, so if someone claimed heal on Chibi and was not called out, discount second PGO suspicion entirely]] or, if vigi, sit back and potentially save the game depending on how today goes. Claiming vigi makes you a target and clearly the mafia has some way to kill even if they get protected, so I think being quiet about it and having people believe you're doctor is a good strategy, especially with a bunch of clears."

"Plus, as I've thought, I'm not sure how true the vigi being forced to kill is, which is my main suspicion of the claim. There's no real proof that Phoebe shot Cygnus."

[[These are all my suspicions on what could be happening that isn't just everybody being doctor, at least. Like I said in my post, they could still be and probably are a doctor. My sus lies with Yellow, Pano, Starlight or you being fake and evil docs. Odds are at least some of the doctor claims are true, but I think Chibi is most likely to be power role if Pano is mafia]]

 

[tomatorade]

[[also, maybe I'm too sus of the way people votes, but Victoria was such a quick train that, if they were evil, I didn't want people coming back to me the next day like 'why did you not vote the obvious evil'. I didn't think they were, as I said, and I could've just as well abstained, but it was funnier to vote myself.]]

 

[Starlight Aurate]

[[Im going back on what I said about mafia docs being unlikely without heal clash; I read through Second Anni Mafia which did have heal clash but the mafia doc was still a threat even without it.

Also the fact that Homies haven’t caught a single thug yet is giving me :rowlanxiety:]]

 

[Panoramic_Vacuum]

[[The wariness of FauxFox and choosing to shoot him is one thing that REALLY gives me pause. I'm wary of anyone who doesn't trust Anubis and Spencer because their claims are pretty much impossible to fake (if any doc thinks either of them are fake, I'll know they're a fake doctor because their role PMs match the one Sind wrote for docs WORD FOR WORD). And you chose to shoot Spencer the SAME NIGHT that Sriracha died, so you couldn't have known that Spencer's protection would have failed yet. Also, if you were wary of Anubis, why not shoot him? Why go for Spencer?]]

[[my thinking was that in the trio of claimed docs, someone was faking. I had already postulated an Anubis/Spencer scum duo, and figured of the three, either Anubis or Spencer were lying about their actual powers. (Scum having 1 doc meant the other could copy the role PM and claim as well.) I decided to shoot for Spencer to test Anubis' claim. If Anubis wasn't a doc, they couldn't protect Spencer. Turns out I was wrong, and didn't cost town a kill.]]

"Okay, we started with 11 players. There are probably three thugs, right? And potentially a third party--actually, if there's a third party, it'd likely just be two thugs. I don't think there's a third party, though, considering that we've had only one death per night. I'm agreeing with what Spencer said: the thugs have a roleblocker and a killer. So, last night, Spencer was probably blocked and Sriracha was killed--er, sent to the Dunce Room. It's also possible that it was a strongman kill--sentence--but what would the other thugs be doing? There probably isn't a bulletproof, unless Phoebe really is a trigger-happy redneck. And I haven't seen anything that would make me think there's swapping happening, though if all of Town has the same power, I guess we wouldn't know."

[[The one thing I noticed about Sriracha's elimination was the lack of strongman kill flavor by the GM. Granted this isn't a guarantee and probably varies by GM, but most (if not all?) of my TR Mafia experiences had specific flavor to hint at a strongman elimination, of which I missed several times! It's why I paid attention to it this time, specifically. This isn't foolproof b/c again, GM style varies, but lack of strongman flavor here suggests roleblock interference. and AFIK there is no swapping present in this setup per the sign up thread list of possible roles.]]

"Also, if Phoebe killed Cygnus night one, then who were the thugs targeting? Did the doctors actually prevent a kill, even though only three people were targeted by doctor heals?"

[[My guess is the thugs buried a shot into a doctor protect. If there's as many doctors as claimed, or even remotely close, that's a lot of protection flying around night 1.]]

 

[HelloYellow17]

I just don't get why several people are determined that Stracion is Town? Rui is suspicious of me for this, but I don't feel like I'm overly fixated on Stracion, just that she doesn't feel particularly Town because I haven't seen many things that are super helpful from her, imo.

[[to be fair, that was only a mild reason for me side-eying you! I agree that Chibi shouldn’t be automatically trusted as town for their claim—technically nobody should be, though I think Fox and Tetra have pretty much cemented their standing. I mean, I guess one of them could be a mafia doctor, and just tweaked their role PM a little, but that still would have been REAL heckin risky and I don’t think either of them would have taken that chance if they were scum.

I was also side-eying you because you were around for the craziness at EOD but didn’t offer up any doc claims yourself? (Please correct me if I’m wrong, you might NOT have been present—I had to read 10 pages of backlog at once so it kind of all blurs together LOL.) The hesitation was odd to me, is all.

Honestly though, it comes down to tomatorade or Pano for me. I’m not familiar with Tomatorade’s style, so I have no idea what to make of it, but it does seem very shifty and smoke-blowy and it’s setting off all kinds of alarms in my head. But maybe that’s just how they play?? Idk??? It’s still SUS AF though, especially since I don’t really buy that there’s a town aligned PGO in this setup. Idk. Is PGO normally a town role? Or can it be anything?

Pano is stressing me out lol. (Ily Pano.) Her defensiveness and aggressive pushing here reminds me a lot of when she was SK (or scum? Idr) a while back and the way she responded when placed under suspicion. But then again, maybe this is the way she always behaves when under scrutiny? She usually dies in the night instead lol. Which. LUCKY. Dying in the night is WAY less stressful than getting voted out in the day, LOL.

Anyway…HNGH I’ve made up my mind that it’s gotta be tomato or Pano today. They’re both setting off my alarms like crazy.

@tomatorade have you posted a read list yet, and your reasons behind it? Can I hear your thoughts on that?]]

 

[Panoramic_Vacuum]

[[I'm not a PGO 😂 (curse you Sind and your similarly named roles.) I'm a Vigilante, though both are flavored as Redneck.

And apologies for my aggressive play here. I'm frustrated and confused, which, yeah this is mafia lol. I think what gets me is that Day 1 I got sussed for "not trying to game solve" with zero information, which left me very ??? but now that there's a TON of information flying around it felt like not a lot of folks were trying to game solve but didn't garner any sus by it? There's discussion now but we're also [checks watch] 3 hours from the deadline? And have had very little discussion about the 85 doc claims of which everyone agrees *some* have to be fake.

I want to say tomatorade and I are the only ones who *haven't* claimed doc? Someone correct me on that if that's not the case. And based on the set up, I'm more inclined to believe tomato and sus the doc claims that weren't involved in the original role PM posting fiasco. (Though call me crazy I still don't 100% buy that two people saying "yeah we're both docs and we healed each other" as mechanically confirmed town.)

So that leaves uhh:
- Jack
- Stracion
- Rui
- Derek

as doc claims outside of the role PM reveal window.

Does anyone think it's bonkers that there might be *two* scumteams of two players each? Maybe one team has a roleblocker, and one has a mafia doc?? I honestly don't know.]]

 

[tomatorade]

[[my read list is sort of sprinkled through my posts, but I shall coalesce for convenience and in order of my suspicion.

Tetra/Fox: I totally believe they're real doctors. As I said before, I think fake roleclaims is such a wild read for the GM to make that I 100% believe they're real.

Free/Chibi: Pretty certain they're town. I fell like I've made it seem like I have some sort of concrete proof of that, but I don't. They've made the most sense to me so far. Free especially has done so much work this game and haven't to my knowledge said or done anything contradictory or suspect in my eyes. This does not 100% clear, but without absolute proof, they're my next reads as town.

The final three players are kinda all in the same category. All are potential mafia imo.

Yellow: Yellow just hasn't done a whole lot in either direction. Claims doc, but who hasn't, really. Didn't pretend to ping me so I have no callout either way. I'm kind of either way here. A doctor is for sure lying, but I haven't seen anything to confirm that yet so I can only speculate. In this case I either haven't been paying attention or just haven't seen a lot from you.

Starlight: Same pretty much. Definitely not her fault, you do be busy sometimes, but I just haven't heard a lot to make judgement either way and I'm least trusting of this doctor claim as a result, I think.

Pano: I believe there's another power role besides PGO. It's possible Pano is that, but I also think Chibi could be or even Shini who died first day (supposing they were killed by mafia, or poked me and were not shot by vigi, as Pano claims. Once again, I have no concrete proof they're not vigi, they're shoot claims make sense and I have no way to refute them. But the game would still make sense if they were not vigi and I'm sus of the forced to kill thing so those are my hangups.

Honestly, the major reason I'm not gunning Pano is that at least one of the doctors has to be lying and we're spending a lot of time sussing Pano even though there are obvious holes we haven't covered. @HelloYellow17 ]]