[INNOCENTS WIN] First Anniversary Fanfic Mafia - Game Thread

[Tanuki]

[[“I been talkin’ too much fee m’own good,” Desper admitted with a shrug. “Main point o’ fact is, if that switcher turns out a black hat, first thing they did was lie to make Lauchy look clean.”]]

OOC/Translation: this is the main takeaway. If Dawning is a mafia, the very first thing they did was make qva innocent in the eyes of everyone.

 

[kyeugh]

man can someone back me up that i’m not crazy and this is seriously weird. no one is engaging with this at all except me and i feel like i’m losing my sanity. idk why it’s bothering me so much but it really is.

 

[Tanuki]

i don’t really feel a strong need to explain myself anyway?

That’s another thing. I’m exactly one person remotely entertaining this idea, and you’ve spent paragraph after paragraph arguing it. In all that, you didn’t feel a strong need to defend yourself? Just... did it for funsies?

 

[kyeugh]

That’s another thing. I’m exactly one person remotely entertaining this idea, and you’ve spent paragraph after paragraph arguing it. In all that, you didn’t feel a strong need to defend yourself? Just... did it for funsies?

it just bothers me because it makes literally negative sense and is about me and no one is saying anything about it. i should be ignoring it but it just bugs me a lot.

 

[elyvorg]

but i think it’s just as possible that dw is telling the truth, just doesn’t really care that much and hasn’t been taking other people’s suggestions into account that much.

I admit I can see where you're coming from on this possibility, but I'm going to stick to my guns here. This is the strongest scumread I've had all game and I want to do something about it.

(Though one point against the idea that they "don't really care that much" would be that obnoxious bigfont post trying to get us to lynch one of our very useful claimed roles. Sure seemed like they cared all of a sudden then.)

also, dw and persephone’s interactions do not really make sense if they’re both scum.

What interactions? As far as I remember, the tw of them barely interacted at all (unless you call their voting for each other an "interaction", and I've already explained why that can hypothetically make sense if they're both mafia). Is there something I'm forgetting about?

hm, yeah, this actually makes a lot of sense. also, this is kind of weird? hmmm... i guess the persephone wagon was sudden enough that it’s actually kind of plausible that both she/dw could be scum together, since mafia wouldn’t have had a ton of time or ability to diffuse. might need to sleep on this tbh...

That's the point I was making in the RP post as Tefiren! Them voting for themselves in that situation makes the most sense if they're mafia. It was that that made me start to suspect them and then realise how much else also potentially made sense that way.

I think Negrek mentioned there may be "custom roles" present -- but tanners etc. aren't custom, so who knows. I suppose it's not worth considering something that's so far away as an unknown right now.

Ah--yep.

What I was saying wasn't that they can't be third-party because it's not on Negrek's role list - I'm aware there's at least one custom role in here - but that they can't be third-party because a lot of my reasoning for them being mafia is about them explicitly being mafia, not just non-town.

Theoretically, if she is mafia and is not a mafia bus driver,

If they're mafia, then we have absolutely no reason to believe they're a bus driver at all. If they're mafia then the most likely scenario is that what Espeon saw was DW killing Chibi.

I mentioned at one point yesterday that having a mafia bus driver would be kind of overpowered in this setup, since they could use that to get their kills in through heals even without needing to use a strongman, so it'd kind of defeat the point of the strongman even being there.


re: Tanuki - no, qva, this is striking me as odd, too. I imagine you're feeling something like how I felt yesterday when he voted me on the basis of something I literally didn't do and then refused to acknowledge it, and nobody else was calling it out for being weird. I guess it's just that it's so weird we all can't be bothered to even engage with it, and only you can because you're the one directly involved?

 

[Tanuki]

Okay, to Tanuki's credit here, I've actually read about this gambit.

it makes literally negative sense

 

[Namohysip]

[[

Diyem glanced between Desper and Lauchs, frowning in thought. "...I'll admit that I had considered Lauchs suspicious in the past for how quickly they were to point at me, but that's behind me now. My therapist tells me that I need to stop holding grudges, and in a situation like this, it won't help to keep such things irrationally.

"I understand... some of Desper's strategy. It is one that would be high-risk, especially with so many information roles, but it's essentially taking away psychological cover in exchange for complete luck that they won't get caught overnight, and if they do, hope for a Strongman claim on the nonexistant other mafia member, and so on. A game of Battleship where you only have a single, unsuspecting, tiny ship in the sea..."

Diyem rubbed his scaly brows. "The problem is that Desper's strategy seems to be as scattered and filled with gaps as his manner of speech. Leaps in logic that I need time to follow, or some that lead me around that I've started to give up trying too follow it. The reason I struggle to approach this is because I don't know whether this person is town or mafia, despite that strategy. After all, I've made similarly dubious claims... though, I'd corrected myself after being presented further evidence."

]]

 

[Sike Saner]

IIf they're not a bus driver, what Espeon saw was them killing Chibi.

How THAT possibility failed to occur to me before, I may never know. That actually makes a fair bit more sense than DW being a bus driver, in that it seems like a less convoluted answer.

 

[Tanuki]

he voted me on the basis of something I literally didn't do and then refused to acknowledge it

Wait, sorry, I thought I had acknowledged I was mistaken there, and that voting you was basically just an empty threat to see how you’d react.

 

[Tanuki]

Leaps in logic that I need time to follow

[[“Oh? I’dda thought those wings a yours’d make leapin’ no trouble at all.”]]

that’s just Desper being him, but my main point which I drowned out by overexplaining everything else less important is that if DW flips mafia, their first action was to paint qva innocent.

 

[kyeugh]

(Though one point against the idea that they "don't really care that much" would be that obnoxious bigfont post trying to get us to lynch one of our very useful claimed roles. Sure seemed like they cared all of a sudden then.)

lol good point hahahaha

What interactions? As far as I remember, the tw of them barely interacted at all (unless you call their voting for each other an "interaction", and I've already explained why that can hypothetically make sense if they're both mafia). Is there something I'm forgetting about?

i honestly can’t remember what i was thinking here. i think i thought dw was being much more vocal about their vote on persephone but it doesn’t look that way upon reread, hm.

re: tanuki’s post that’s just quotes so i can’t requote it—not really a good point? a single person going “yeah he’s not lying through his teeth about the general existence of this ploy he’s describing” does not make the fact that you’re pinning it on someone else with no evidence any less, as you called it yourself, “insane”

re: Tanuki - no, qva, this is striking me as odd, too. I imagine you're feeling something like how I felt yesterday when he voted me on the basis of something I literally didn't do and then refused to acknowledge it, and nobody else was calling it out for being weird. I guess it's just that it's so weird we all can't be bothered to even engage with it, and only you can because you're the one directly involved?

that makes sense i guess. i just... i feel like the only reason NOT to scumread this is the fact that he had an undisputed claim, which as namo observed isn’t even necessarily a town role. he spent most of yesterday confusing everyone with ostensibly scummy moves too, and we looked past it because of the uncontested roleclaim and in favor of other pressing matters, but then in response to seeing the person he had been suspecting shoot scum, has now crafted a weird unsubstantiated theory about how i’m just shooting my friends for cred i don’t need, and like... i don’t know, it’s not just weird, i feel like it’s pretty much alarming? my vote on him was initially because i thought it was just the most useful lynch since there’s a lot of uncertainty attached to him, but increasingly i just find this so weird and outright scummy—and also receive the impression that others feel this way too, but just don’t want to interact with it for some reason? i don’t know. i’m confused tbh.

like ultimately he’s either town playing extremely anti-town, or he’s basically openwolfing, and it feels extremely weird not to say anything at all? like maybe by repeatedly engaging with it and pointing out how weird it is, someone will go “oh yeah that is weird”? but no one really is. so i should ignore it but like... i don’t. want to! it’s weird!!! i feel like it is much weirder than the dw thing and is also like, actively spewing information in every direction. it’s just serial weirdness and i feel like it’s a sufficient case for a lynch honestly. but no one seems to agree despite not, like, disagreeing. it is really weird and i can’t help but feel in the back of my head like no one is defending dw because he’s actually town and the mafia are content to let it roll, and simultaneously no one is picking up on the tanuki thing because they’re more interested in the dw thing.

ultimately, like... if tanuki flips wolf, great, and if not then we have another doctor, and he’s sorted and we can move on from this. idk.

 

[windskull]

If they're mafia, then we have absolutely no reason to believe they're a bus driver at all. If they're mafia then the most likely scenario is that what Espeon saw was DW killing Chibi.

I mentioned at one point yesterday that having a mafia bus driver would be kind of overpowered in this setup, since they could use that to get their kills in through heals even without needing to use a strongman, so it'd kind of defeat the point of the strongman even being there.

Fair point there, I hadn't thought about it that way.

 

[Tanuki]

i’m just shooting my friends for cred i don’t need,

Once again, I’ve stated several times why it is cred that you do need, and you’re ignoring it as if to paint me as mafia... except you’re going even further to now claim I’m anti town. On an issue you “don’t even care about.”

I will restate for the how manyeth time that the reason you would need that cred is because if DW is mafia, their first move was to paint you innocent. If DW is innocent, I have basically no suspicion on you at all besides how you’re obsessing over this and calling me anti-town. That’s probably just me being a petty bitch, though, so take it as you will.

 

[kyeugh]

If they're mafia, then we have absolutely no reason to believe they're a bus driver at all. If they're mafia then the most likely scenario is that what Espeon saw was DW killing Chibi.

I mentioned at one point yesterday that having a mafia bus driver would be kind of overpowered in this setup, since they could use that to get their kills in through heals even without needing to use a strongman, so it'd kind of defeat the point of the strongman even being there.

wait, so... if dw is scum, they’re not a roleblocker, so a town roleblocker who hasn’t spoken up against dw must have blocked sike? or the mafia spent their strongman on chibi for some reason? i’m not sure i’m tracking... how do you think it elapsed? i’m can’t work out how dw not being swapper really works out unless sike is also lying, which i doubt. sorry if you’ve already explained this.

 

[Tanuki]

Honestly, that you want me out of the game whether or not I’m town’s kinda hurtful.

 

[Tanuki]

I’m gonna take a step back for a bit. That post was unnecessary in every sense. I’d delete it, but y’know. Either way, I’m going to take a break. Sorry for that.

 

[kyeugh]

Once again, I’ve stated several times why it is cred that you do need, and you’re ignoring it as if to paint me as mafia... except you’re going even further to now claim I’m anti town. On an issue you “don’t even care about.”

I will restate for the how manyeth time that the reason you would need that cred is because if DW is mafia, their first move was to paint you innocent. If DW is innocent, I have basically no suspicion on you at all besides how you’re obsessing over this and calling me anti-town. That’s probably just me being a petty bitch, though, so take it as you will.

i will restate for the how manyeth time that that still doesn’t make sense, because no one was scumreading me anyway, and unless i’m really misreading the room, they’re not going to suddenly start scumreading me if dw flips scum, because i’ve made other contributions to the game beyond being the target of an unverified mafia visit. dw’s alignment does not have any link to mine, you’re just imagining one either because you don’t want to reconsider your push on me that you’ve been maintaining since the first moments of the game, or because you’re actively trying to make me look bad.

Honestly, that you want me out of the game whether or not I’m town’s kinda hurtful.

i’m really sorry if it’s hurtful, it isn’t because of YOU... in the end this is all just a game! i’m not forming personal opinions about the players based on anything in here. it’s just, and i’m sure you understand, a MAJOR element of your play so far has been pushing on me for reasons that seem transparently invented to suit the push rather than observed to form an opinion, and given that i know i’m town, i find it (and other elements of your play) obstructive to a town victory, regardless of your alignment (and even if you are town, your role is redundant). it’s not a personal thing and i’m genuinely sorry if it comes off that way; i am frustrated but only in the sense that one becomes frustrated in any argument, and this argument is only a game.

 

[windskull]

wait, so... if dw is scum, they’re not a roleblocker, so a town roleblocker who hasn’t spoken up against dw must have blocked sike? or the mafia spent their strongman on chibi for some reason? i’m not sure i’m tracking... how do you think it elapsed? i’m can’t work out how dw not being swapper really works out unless sike is also lying, which i doubt. sorry if you’ve already explained this.

I'm not sure I can follow your logic here. If dw is mafia and performed the kill on Chibi, couldn't a mafia roleblocker still have blocked sike? Or is there something I'm missing here? Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think all elyvorg is saying is that if there's a strongman role, it wouldn't make sense for there to also be a mafia busdriver, since having both of those to get around protects would be kind of op.

 

[kyeugh]

I'm not sure I can follow your logic here. If dw is mafia and performed the kill on Chibi, couldn't a mafia roleblocker still have blocked sike? Or is there something I'm missing here? Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think all elyvorg is saying is that if there's a strongman role, it wouldn't make sense for there to also be a mafia busdriver, since having both of those to get around protects would be kind of op.

right, yeah. i guess i’m just kind of extending that logic to a roleblocker, since a roleblock would disable a protect as well.

 

[elyvorg]

wait, so... if dw is scum, they’re not a roleblocker, so a town roleblocker who hasn’t spoken up against dw must have blocked sike? or the mafia spent their strongman on chibi for some reason? i’m not sure i’m tracking... how do you think it elapsed? i’m can’t work out how dw not being swapper really works out unless sike is also lying, which i doubt. sorry if you’ve already explained this.

DW is claiming to be a bus driver. At no point was anyone assuming they were a roleblocker, whether or not they're mafia.

If Sike is telling the truth, they were roleblocked the night they tried to protect Chibi, because Espeon didn't see them there. This is the case whether DW is telling the truth or not, and therefore whether Espeon was actually looking at Chibi, or at you. But if DW is lying, then there was no switch, Espeon was looking at Chibi, and she saw DW there because DW was killing Chibi. Therefore the mafia roleblocker is evidently someone other than DW.

(windskull ninja'd me and explained it just about as well, but hey)


re: Tanuki: My current read on him is that he's just really, really misguided town trying for plays that don't make much sense and stubbornly doubling down on them even when told they don't make sense. His play just seems too all over the place for it to be a remotely safe thing for a mafia to be trying to do - but then again I don't have much experience of this "powerwolfing" thing qva's talking about so maybe it's that?

Tanuki, you are acknowledging that qva is only suspicious to you at all if DawningWinds is mafia. In that case, can we just wait until we lynch DawningWinds (whom you've already voted for, so you are aware that lynching them first here is necessary before pointing at qva), and if they flip mafia, then we can get back to discussing qva if you really insist? It just seems unnecessary to waste so much time today discussing what's essentially tomorrow's issue.