@Spiteful Murkrow
Thanks for the tip about using hovertext for timestamps! I had considered putting additional timestamps in for all of the verses, but just having the times there in among the text felt like it would be too distracting - however, hovertext is the perfect solution that I simply hadn't realised was an option! I have now edited those in, hopefully they'll help you out a bit (as well as anybody else) if you get around to checking out the second song/go back to revisit the first song.
On one level, I genuinely felt bad in-game that there was no option to try and talk Ogrepon into hanging around Kieran since it felt kinda weird to just swoop in and snipe the dreams of a kid with local roots... on the other, considering how healthy™️ Kieran's overall outlook was in Teal Mask, maybe it's for the best that he didn't become Ogrepon's trainer after all.
Yup, Kieran is definitely nothing but Extremely Healthy(TM) Worldviews, particularly when it comes to strength and weakness. Definitely a great mentor figure for Ogerpon there.
Which was kinda a "careful what you wish for" moment for anyone who did Teal Mask at any point past the first couple hours or so since... yeah. It was not exactly hard to come into that DLC seriously overleveled.
Hey, even then, even though he's basically just asking you to curbstomp him if you're capable of it (which you probably are), Kieran still means this! He won't have
earned the right to be Ogerpon's partner (which is totally what will happen if he wins, right) if he only won because you were
holding back.
In my defense, I literally selected the dialogue option that attempted to apologize to you for leaving you out of the loop and extended an olive branch, so...
This definitely still applies even in the universe where you picked that option! Kieran definitely just brushed that off without properly internalising it and stayed trapped in his self-perpetuating spiral of "it's because I'm weak".
Though yeah, it's gonna be weird if PokéAni also does this when it inevitably gets to its version of Teal Mask's events. Assuming that it does, anyways.
Interesting thought! Yeah, I can only imagine that if the anime
does go to Kitakami at any point, things will turn out very differently, specifically due to the lack of the Perfect Protagonist Who Gets Everything causing Kieran's issues to skyrocket (and because most characters would not have made the Extremely Intelligent Decision to lie to him at all). I would still be down for seeing how an anime adaptation handles Kieran even in a different storyline anyway, because whoops apparently I have a favourite Pokémon canon character now.
You see, that I'm less convinced about since Ogrepon was literally going for me before you showed up. Not that I don't understand the pain of watching the Pokémon you've dreamed of befriending for years join up with a literal who from another region.
Oh, but you're not just some nobody from nowhere! You're
the coolest and strongest trainer he's ever met, of
course Ogerpon wants to partner with you, and the only way he could possibly change her mind is if he
proves he's even stronger than you, right, definitely
Yeeeeeeeeah, a
lot about Kieran's family dynamic is messed up once you stop and think about it, really.
This part wasn't even just about the family dynamic! While his sister is a significant part of it so I wanted to include mention of her, I very much get the sense that Kieran's issues about being walked all over and shunned don't come from
only her. (After all, he's also got issues about being
treated like an outcast, which is not something Carmine would have ever done to him - until she did so accidentally in the DLC's events, whoops
)
Well, we'll see how much that pans out in Indigo Disk, since things have definitely been kicking up a notch in that DLC.
No, that's literally because you sat out an entire story arc because you were mad at everyone and missed a critical window to make an impression on Ogrepon. I mean, it was understandable, but yeah.
No, it's
obviously because he's weak, right? Even if he had chosen to come along with Ogerpon on the mask-retrieval quest, she'd still have just ignored him the whole time for that reason, right?
(this is probably a lot of why he
didn't want to come, thus making it an apparent self-fulfilling prophecy
)
@Dragonfree
I think you did a lovely job in these of centering and bringing out Kieran's issues while carefully making use of the structure of the music. I went and listened to and mapped out the different sections of all of his battle themes and was particularly tickled by noticing how the melody that forms the repeating chorus you that you chose to make about his obsession with strength is something that is just barely hinted at in his original battle theme, a small singular melodic phrase occurring once as a bridge that then becomes sort of the central theme of the Teal Mask final battle - a really appropriate choice to make it about this aspect of his character that always existed in him in the background but has become magnified into The Most Important Thing by the time of that final fight.
Yessss! I do think that, although that melody sounds pretty innocuous in the
intro to Kieran's original battle theme, when it comes back at the end just before the song loops, it does sound just a little more sinister and desperate, a hint at the crushing inferiority complex and desire to prove himself bubbling under the surface that's going to cause Problems sooner or later down the line. (Which, of course, it has already started doing in the third and fourth battles that use this theme.)
But!!! Do you want even more fun facts about that particular section of his theme? It is
very definitely intended to be the Kieran's Issues Leitmotif by the composers, not only because it's the one part that persists through all three of his battle themes and just keeps getting more intense, but, also!!!
...
This is Kieran's overworld theme, used for when you're hanging out with him at the signboards and becoming friends (and distinctly
not used at the third signboard when he knows you're lying to him). It's cute and soft and cosy and it's based off most of the melodies from his first battle theme - but
not the section that we have deemed here to be about his issues.
Meanwhile,
this is the other much more sinister Kieran theme used in certain cutscenes, specifically the ones where his behaviour is becoming Concerning(TM). (The title of that video implies it's just for him being mad that you lied, but it's used for more than that - it even comes back in Indigo Disk when
he's ranting while pulling out Terapagos.) And
this theme contains that familiar melody from the Issues Section, because of course it does!
(It also contains one other melody, based on the part from his second battle theme that I gave the lyrics "And don't think I'll be holding back either"/"I'm gonna show you just what I can do". I did not actually realise this when I wrote those lyrics, but that's somehow incredibly fitting, because the scenes this theme is used for also tend to have a running theme of Kieran trying to
prove himself to you through battling. This little melody
is still buried in there in his original battle theme too, but it's subtler and layered behind some more upbeat notes.)
What's really interesting to me, though, is that the part of the main Kieran's Issues Motif that's used in the cutscene theme is only the
second melodic phrase of it, and not the first. Both phrases are similar enough that just the second one alone still immediately pings as yep, it's that part of the theme, but... hm. It feels like something's missing.
Where does the
first melodic phrase come from? Guess where that's found: it's in
Carmine's theme - both
her overworld theme and subtly in the intro/just-before-looping section of
her battle theme. Which is extremely neat!!! Not only does it link the two siblings' themes together and make them sound connected, but also it says a lot as to where a good amount of Kieran's inferiority complex and obsession with becoming stronger
came from in the first place.
There's an interesting, and unsettling, conflict to these two sentiments. He wants to believe Ogerpon would choose him if he were the strongest - that it would simply be her free choice to go with him. But also that if he were stronger, no one would refuse him - he's so used to being trampled and dismissed and cast aside and has attributed that to not being strong enough, so it all becomes sort of a bit tangled up in his head with the idea that if he were stronger no one would refuse him. If that were truly the case, that would imply it's less Ogerpon choosing him and more that he has earned the right to be respected and she just would do it, right? He has to believe that he can earn that right somehow. And he repeats this to himself like a mantra, convincing himself it's the truth.
"Refuse" actually didn't quite entirely have the implications I originally wanted to go for here, but it was the most appropriate word I could find that rhymed with "choose". But on reflection I did think that the slightly Concerning implications of Kieran wanting
nobody to refuse him ever again were pretty appropriate. And they turned out to be more appropriate that I could have intended in regards to his behaviour when he becomes champion, in which he's being demanding and condescending to the others in the League Club, and
nobody can refuse his authority because
he's stronger than any of them.
(I did briefly toy with "no-one would abuse me" instead, but that seemed a bit too on-the-nose, and even if one decided to describe what Kieran's been through as that, it's definitely not a word
he'd use for it.)
Here's earning again - the battle is about earning this right, and everything depends on this, and he can't earn it unless he wins for real. (Enjoying imagining this is the timeline where Kieran won that first battle and he just immediately figured you were holding back.)
Bahaha, I honestly can't imagine there ever being a possible canon timeline in which you genuinely lose to Kieran's first battle and yet are still someone he'd end up idolising the way he does, because, let's be real, he is truly not very strong there, bless him. (
Maybe if this was the non-postgame version and you were underlevelled, but in that timeline you would have struggled to grow stronger fast enough to outclass him in every subsequent battle.) Perhaps instead we can imagine it's a timeline where you took pity on this kid with just a Sentret and a Yanma, and deliberately used a not-very-effective move on Yanma to at least give him the chance to leave a dent in you, thus triggering his battle dialogue asking if you're holding back and saying
he doesn't like that.
(But still, Kieran does have canon dialogue in this final battle demanding you don't hold back, regardless of what happened in the earlier fights.)
Although they're mostly quite different, I like how both the Teal Mask and Indigo Disk final Kieran battles have a fairly dark/tense tone for the most part (especially the latter, of course), but they both share this one section/verse that feels a bit less tense, looking upward a bit, and it feels very appropriate that in both sets of lyrics you use these sections to let Kieran get just a little into some of the more genuine roots of what drives him: his admiration of Ogrepon and desire to be friends with her and then his desire to have the courage to stand up for himself, in this one. But both times that verse ends with him coming back to the idea that he needs to get stronger...
Yep! It just felt like it fit the mood of the music to have him get introspective in this section in the first theme, and then when that same section was reprised in the champion theme, I just figured, welp, better do the same thing there too. (And then the line about getting
stronger got reprised with
such a twisted desperate riff and it could not have been more perfect.)
This is such a fun progression of the mantra. Starting with confidence - I'm going to win - but then it turns into I've got to win (which plausibly deniably could mean "This has got to be the time I win, right?" but is tinged with this increased desperation (those added violins) as it inches towards what it really means: "I need to win this time." He needs this so badly and that initial measured confidence is already on the verge of breaking.
That opening part really was just musically designed for a Desperate Repetitive Mantra, even more so than the equivalent part from the previous song. Just keeps repeating exactly the same rhythm for two very similar melodic phrases over and over, with increasing intensity on the second verse, and then the very final line shifts the melody up into some higher notes for
maximum desperation. This was the easiest part of this song to write by far.
There's such a dramatic, almost pipe-organ-like quality to the guitars of this section. I like the sense that while it starts with this tense repetitive inner monologue, this is him speaking to you, with this sense of finality, establishing the stakes of this fight. Everything is riding on this, all his choices will be worth it, all his efforts for one purpose. Everything just comes down to this, to proving he isn't doomed to be forever inferior to you.
Yes! "Pipe-organ-like" is a strange but very fitting way to describe the vibe this section gives me! (Now I want to hear it remixed with actual pipe organs here.) I really wanted to use this section to get across that drama and gravity and the sense that
this one battle is everything to him
And that, of course, takes us back to the motivation section again, which has now grown incoherent guitar riffs, those times are definitely over and done, he had to get stronger and he did, he did
(This is another bit where I admit I have some trouble placing where you're putting the words against the melody, what with rapid chaotic guitar riffs! Would love to hear more on what you're thinking here, too.)
definitely The Most over and done, right, and
good thing, too, good riddance to that weakling he used to be
(I... do not blame you for getting confused on fitting the lyrics here, this was the trickiest part to write for, especially the "everything" lines, took me a While to figure out where the syllables even
were in that riff. Really not sure how to explain it in text, though, alas.)
And we're back to the section that calls back to the opening of your very first battle with him. He's not that kid from Kitakami, indeed, even as we reprise the melody of when you got to know that kid from Kitakami. There's a very fun irony to the fact he insists on how he needed to change himself to the melody of the one bit that hasn't changed.
THIS WASN'T EVEN ON PURPOSE OF ME WHAT, oh my god. I just wanted to put a bit about him having changed himself in
somewhere, and it ended up going here because the other parts of the song had been filled out with different things, and it
did not even occur to me that I was literally putting the part about him changing himself in the one bit of melody that's always stayed the same, that is so unintentionally PERFECT, AAAAA. thank you for bringing this to my attention
With these "Issues Sections" in this champion theme, my original intent was to do something very similar to what I did with them in the final Kitakami theme and make them focused on him
comparing himself to you and how much stronger you are. Except, whoops, that's kind of just the theme of
the entire thing this time around, so I couldn't really make these sections focus specifically on that.
Instead, what they kind of ended up having in common this time is... sort of a sense of bleakness and despair? It's pretty damn tragic that he's changed himself into someone completely different, someone impossible to be friends with, and just telling himself that's okay because
he never had any friends anyway - and similarly, the idea that beating you is
all he has left, and he doesn't even truly believe it's possible or that he's ready to do so but
he has to keep pretending anyway because there's
nothing else he can do. He really has just trapped himself in this awful state of toxic, unwinnable, self-destructive misery with no way out.
Something about the different vibe of this section here compared to the equivalent section in the previous themes seemed to fit that. It's the same melody, but in the first two themes there was a sense of
urgency and
determination to it, whereas here it just sounds bleak and almost sort of
exhausted, like he's just dragging himself through it all.
Love the frustration of this bit and how well it conveys that he's struggling. The little reference to the line about how even luck has chosen you, Even if I'm left wide open probably referring to his Porygon-Z's Hyper Beam. The Can't you see how hard I'm going, can't you tell that I've been throwing everything I have at you is so revealing as well - he feels like he's earned this, hasn't he earned this?
This dramatic ""pipe organ"" section halfway through the song felt like it'd be most appropriate for bringing things back into the present, the current state of the battle and how it's going for him, which, yes: not nearly as well as he'd been trying to imagine, oh dear. I was more thinking about how an unexpected critical hit might have ruined his strategy and left him open there, but Hyper Beam definitely also works for it, lmao.
The latter part is also referencing a bit of in-battle dialogue, as he sends out his final Pokémon: "Just go down already! How are you still standing after I've thrown everything I have at you?!", which I enjoy a lot and very much wanted to include here in some form.
The bright section again! He's legitimately impressed and in awe, admires the confidence and fearlessness and freedom he sees in you because they're things he so wishes he had (just like his admiration of Ogerpon herself), admires the bond that you have with her -- but then, again, those thoughts twist into but I'll never have that, and into wild anger.
And remember that thing I mentioned in my Discord thread - this uplifting section is loosely based off the Tera Raid battle theme, which, I have determined, is more meaningfully interpreted as being the
player character's theme - this is him
admiring you and
wishing he could be as cool as you. (Which was not a thing I had figured out when I wrote these lyrics but oh
boy is it appropriate.)
And final original battle opening callback as he returns to the one thing he's left with being proving he can beat you. It all comes down to battling you, like that first time. (Still enjoy how he refers to it as a mask. Fun to think of it in the context of what you posted in the Discord thread today, too, regarding how he puts on this expressionless mask when he Terastalizes his Pokémon.)
Heh, speaking of this other thing I mentioned in the Discord thread (about him putting up an expressionless mask while Terastalising to avoid wincing from the force of it) - the lines from this song it actually made
me think of were "The blinding dazzle of your Pokémon/With you behind them, self-assured and fearless and free".
You are one of the only trainers who can look straight at the dazzling light of your Tera Orb without flinching and being blinded by such incredible power, because you're strong enough to match it, while all Kieran can do is pretend. (And, though I didn't have that in particular in mind at the time, I was thinking when I wrote the line that the "blinding dazzle" could potentially be literal as well as metaphorical, as you might have Terastalised something by this point in the battle.)
Really wish I could hear these sung, especially if it were by someone who could really put the emotional punch into it. The Boy has so many issues and he should Sing them.
Ughhh, me too. If only I could sing/voice act well enough/had decent audio-recording software/audio editing skills/had an appropriate-sounding voice. Alas.
(I would not be surprised if Juno Songs, the person who did the lyrics for the first battle theme that inspired me to try this myself, is currently working on some for this champion theme. Of course, if they do, it'll be different lyrics from these, but I'm sure the result will still be Very Very Good voice-acting-wise.)
